Which charts

[Ifraser]

I am carrying out some research into improving the useability of paper charts aboard open boats such as R.I.B's with a view to presenting my ideas to chart companies. You will understand that I am prohibited from disclosing my ideas by confidentiality etc but I was wondering if you can help at all by letting me know which, if any paper charts you carry at the moment and how do you keep them dry. For example do you use admiralty, imray or stansfords and why? Do you use individual cahrts or folio's and why? What do you carry them in and how well are they fairing. Any other information you consider useful I would also be delighted to hear. If my idea goes foreward I will let you know because it will make handling paper charts in RIBS and open boats much easier. Thankyou very much for your help, Iain

[Neal]

Hi and welcome to RIBnet.
For the last three years we have used Stanford chart pack. It comes like a book about 35cmX50cm in a plastic cover still in good condition after many a soaking. Very happy with them. Good luck with your research.

[ian parkes]

Having spent a lot of time coastal cruising in vey small boats mainly kayaks I have always used OS maps and written on them any info that I may need from a chart .

I think to many small boat owners that spend most of thier time close to shore something like an os map but with chart info on would be a good seller.
Also a lot of this type of Boater can navigate on land but hasn't a clue on the sea so being able to take simple bearings and triangulations from a map with a grid is easier .

[roycruse]

Ifraser

I have completely written off the idea of using paper charts on a rib as I consider them as much use as a chocolate tea pot.

When I first bought my boat I went on a mission to find some suitable charts as backup to my chartplotter - but found nothing. I ended up buying a garmin foretrex wrist mount gps as backup instead.

In my opinion what would be ideal for an open RIB is a nautical equivalent to a spiral bound mini road atlas (the ones you can chuck in your glove box in your car) printed on that waterproof plasticky paper.

something like one of these.



Realistically you are never going to do any serious navigation with a paper chart on an open RIB so they are only ever going to be emergency get me home or get me out of the shit maps.

[Richard B]

Originally Posted by Ifraser

which, if any paper charts you carry at the moment

Yes... Either Imray C series or a Stanfords pack

Originally Posted by Ifraser

how do you keep them dry

The Imray can be folded back on themselves and keep acceptably dry in their own wallet. Same with the Stanfords pack, but better as the paper's coated in a more durable material. I also have an assortment of Dorset coast, Solent and Sussex/Kent coast charts cut to A4 and laminated so they are almost indestructable.

Originally Posted by Ifraser

For example do you use admiralty, imray or stansfords and why?

Admiralty charts stay at home unless they are laminated! I believe that have a new range which is more durable than the old stuff, but haven't tried these yet. Otherwise use mostly Imray or Stanfords as above.

Originally Posted by Ifraser

Do you use individual cahrts or folio's and why?

Whatever's available... Imray - I've purchased these individually, Stanfords - I've purchased these in a pack, but AFAIK these are the default (only?) way to buy each of these.

Originally Posted by Ifraser

What do you carry them in and how well are they fairing.

Various... these are very good: http://www.staples.co.uk/ENG/Catalog...affixedcode=WW and have been through some awful weather. I also have a shedload of these: http://www.staples.co.uk/ENG/Catalog...affixedcode=WW which don't seal up as well, but hold lots of stuff and fit behind the console screen just nicely.

Originally Posted by Ifraser

Any other information you consider useful I would also be delighted to hear. If my idea goes foreward I will let you know because it will make handling paper charts in RIBS and open boats much easier. Thankyou very much for your help, Iain

I also keep a colour laser copy of the south coast section of Reeds Almanac on the boat as well. It lives in a rucsac in the console, and I treat it as disposable. For one long trip, I copied and laminated the chartlet for the destination and kept it on the console. It was very handy to have, as we did end up arriving in an unfamiliar port in the dark!

[ian parkes]

What I did was trim the coastal part off a set of landranger maps 1:50000 and join them together . I then rolled them up after writing on all the relavent chart info i wanted and put them in an waterproof chart case. They lasted a long time in a kayak so on a rib they would last relly well.

What you could use on a rib is a rolling roadbook like the Desert racers use on thier motorbikes . Basically a lunch box with a clear lid and two rods with the map rolled onto them , you just scroll up the section you need .

www.touratech.co.uk sell some really posh ones with electric wind on and backlit etc . If it works on a dirt bike then would be ok for coastal work in a rib .
I know lots of people have nice gps maps etc but not us little sibers

[Swifty]

I use a selection of all of them.

The Admiralty small craft folios are ok, about the right size but I do get annoyed because they are loose leaf, use water soluble paper and only print information on one side. They dont seem to last more than a couple of years ribbing. The large size charts are difficult to use, especially on a windy day.

Have a few Imray charts. I like their 2000 series small craft series. Good size, water and tear proof and a good colour scheme. The full size C series are huge and a real PITA. Also only single sided. They seem to last well and corrections easily available. -Just updated a couple.

Also have a Stanfords chart and a couple of folios. I like the folio concept, they are a good size, double sided, water, tear and student proof. Annoyingly they dont sort the areas logically though. Have only had them 1 season but still like new. Have a full size chart, and although this has information on one side, there is alot of useful information on the reverse.
I don't take to their colour scheme as favourably as the others but each to their own. Incidently their large charts don't seem to fold down as easily as the others, annoying on a chart table.

Theres my 2p worth. Do I get some free samples?

EDIT: Forgot to add I mainly use a hiking map case and fold the chart to fit or the plastic sleeve they come in (they are crap). Keep pencils plotter etc in the map case.

Would like to find a water proof map case thats A3 size and can fold in half to A4 size. Stainless bulldog clip on one edge. Neck strap and carry handle. If anyone knows the whereabouts of such an item them let me know. I have looked around for ages.

Tim'mers.

[MikeCC]

I use Stanfords plastic ones in the clear sleeve they come in.

Whatever your design, just don't make it too fiddly.

Roy's idea of a sprial bound chartbook isn't bad except you know that either where you are or where you're headed is ALWAYS on the join!

Perhaps one with much more overlap than is found on roadmaps?

[ian parkes]

Swifty I have 2 large waterproof chart cases one is made by Ortlieb the other better one is made by sealine . Not sure if they are a full A3 but they are much bigger than A4 which is all I have to compare them with . They are a few years old and the Ortlieb one has discoloured and gone smokey so its not much use now .

Most kayaking shops sell them

[roycruse]

Originally Posted by ian parkes

Not sure if they are a full A3 but they are much bigger than A4 which is all I have to compare them with

A3 is 2 x A4 sheets side by side. e.g. if you fold a sheet of A3 in half you have A4.

[ian parkes]

If it was 8'x4' sheets i could have told you .

Thats how you tell the office workers from the workshop guys eh .

Ok its easily 2x A4 sheets side by side it would take a sheet 350x500mm
its clear both sides

[codprawn]

I have a Raymarine c80 running Navionics Gold - also an Ipaq with OS 1:25000 maps with aerial photos - awesome.

On a larger boat you could even have satellite internet with Google Earth....

[Pete7]

Can't remember the name of the firm up on top of Shap on the M6 that do camping and survival stuff, but they did an A3 platic wallet, the last one is now on the way out but it has lasted 5 years.

Meantime how about something like this.

http://www.shop.edirectory.co.uk/pen...ap+case&cid=55

Pete

[Simon Hawkins]

Their is a chart folio in booklet form already in the planning stage with the admiralty, which should be released sometime in the summer. I am afraid I cant give any more information.


Simon

[John Kennett]

Charts for use on RIBs must be:

- waterproof
- durable
- easy to read

Stanfords for me. They are printed on plastic, not paper, and are 100% waterproof and incredibly durable. I find their cartography very clear, and appreciate their on-line correction service. Their harbour booklets are good, but I would prefer individual sheets as they are easier to fold and don't have staples that pull through.

Their coverage is comparatively limited though, so if necessary I use Imray charts which are waterproof-ish. I don't like their cartography very much though.

I've also used laminated photocopies of chart sections and almanac pages. Although people have gone surprising distances using them, I wouldn't rely on road maps or OS maps as they don't have a lot of the important information.

Chart plotters beat conventional charts hands down when you're out on the boat, but I still prefer paper charts for route planning where possible as it's much easy to get a detailed view of a large area. Using a chart plotter for route planning is a bit like looking at a chart through a toilet roll tube!

John

[Swifty]

Originally Posted by John Kennett

... route planning is a bit like looking at a chart through a toilet roll tube!

John

Try doing it on the table and keep the closet for number 1's and number 2's

[Swifty]

Originally Posted by John Kennett

... route planning is a bit like looking at a chart through a toilet roll tube!

John

Try doing it on the table and keep the closet for number 1's and number 2's

PETE7:
Well done. Been looking for ages.
House point.

EDIT:
Darn computers, how did it manage to post twice and miss bits out ???? Sorry for confusing anyone.

[Ifraser]

Thanks everyone for really excellent replies. The information has been excellent and confirmed what I expected to find. If there's any more comments please keep them comming, thanks again Iain

[Poly]

does any of the electronic charting/planning software let you print out hard copies of your route? then you could laminate the pages.

[roycruse]

yes - garmin mapsource does