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Old 28 July 2014, 20:46   #1
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When the sun comes out, out goes safety..

and no they didn't take the jackets off on arrival - I noticed them inbound about a half a mile away.

I'm sure everyone has seen similar scenes recently with the good weather - all tragedies waiting to happen....
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Old 29 July 2014, 00:53   #2
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Just out of interest, have you ever 'fallen out at 20kts' ?

I have hit the water at that speed and a lot faster countless times, you only skim the surface even without a BA, you certainly dont go '1 to 2m under'

In the 100's of times I have hit the water, I have never been knocked out and my speed exceeded 50kts on a lot of those occasions.

Wearing BA's and LJ's is a good thing, but your statements belong on the front page of a tabloid for the uneducated. Allow people to do there own risk assessment. Offshore, in an F10 ? Where a LJ, cove hopping on a sunny millpond day with several other able bodied people in the boat? up to you.

The people in the picture dont deserve to be splashed over the premier rib forum and suffer denegration just for having a day out.
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Old 29 July 2014, 01:03   #3
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the statements may be a little extreme, but it sounds like youre talking about hitting the water whilst skiing etc, the op is talking about being thrown from a boat, which could very easily involve you hitting your head on the way out. either way on my boat its lifejackets at all times, or youre not coming on.
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Old 29 July 2014, 02:10   #4
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And?
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Old 29 July 2014, 03:16   #5
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Bit fed up of these threads now. If you want to wear a lifejacket then go for it, but posting on ribnet about everyone who is seen not doing the same just isn't going to go anywhere.

I don't feel as if it's any of our business if other people choose to use their boats without a BA or lifejacket, it's quite unpleasant to start sticking photos of such people over the internet.

(edited because I need to do my research in future and probably shouldn't allow real world irritation to come out in my ribnet postings )
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Old 29 July 2014, 03:41   #6
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Old 29 July 2014, 03:44   #7
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Originally Posted by bad_moose View Post
Absolutely sick of these threads now. If you want to wear a lifejacket then go for it, but we don't need to be informed every time someone on here notices another rib user not wearing one.

It is absolutely none of your business if other people choose to use their boats without a BA or lifejacket, it's very poor form to start sticking photos of such people over the internet and acting like they've committed a crime.
Wot 'e said I think the phrase you're looking for is DILLIGAF
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Old 29 July 2014, 03:49   #8
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...and acting like they've committed a crime.
In this case, they HAVE broken the law, which puts a slightly different slant on your rant - a bit of manners wouldn't go amiss when you decide to tell people what they should or shouldn't post on RIBnet

The OP is in Ireland, so fair enough to assume the photo was taken there. The law here is "Everyone on board a vessel of less than 23 feet (7.0 metres) in length must wear a lifejacket/personal flotation device."
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Old 29 July 2014, 03:50   #9
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Wot 'e said I think the phrase you're looking for is DILLIGAF
Put your spoon away!
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Old 29 July 2014, 03:59   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bad_moose View Post
Absolutely sick of these threads now. If you want to wear a lifejacket then go for it, but we don't need to be informed every time someone on here notices another rib user not wearing one.

It is absolutely none of your business if other people choose to use their boats without a BA or lifejacket, it's very poor form to start sticking photos of such people over the internet and acting like they've committed a crime.
Could not agree more, Well said
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Old 29 July 2014, 04:00   #11
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Originally Posted by willk View Post
In this case, they HAVE broken the law, which puts a slightly different slant on your rant - a bit of manners wouldn't go amiss when you decide to tell people what they should or shouldn't post on RIBnet

The OP is in Ireland, so fair enough to assume the photo was taken there. The law here is "Everyone on board a vessel of less than 23 feet (7.0 metres) in length must wear a lifejacket/personal flotation device."

Wasn't aware of that, point taken. Although I still don't feel it's our place to stick photos of potential lawbreakers on the internet.

Apologies if I came across rudely but it just feels like this needlessly crops up week in week out. It just seems like there are plenty of far more interesting rib related topics that we could talk about that haven't already been done to death.
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Old 29 July 2014, 04:06   #12
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It just seems like there are plenty of far more interesting rib related topics that we could talk about that haven't already been done to death.
...and I'd second that. Unfortunately the next new thread will probably be about insurance, tube cleaners or "which SIB?"
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Old 29 July 2014, 04:08   #13
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In this case, they HAVE broken the law,

The OP is in Ireland, so fair enough to assume the photo was taken there. The law here is "Everyone on board a vessel of less than 23 feet (7.0 metres) in length must wear a lifejacket/personal flotation device."
In which case, a word to the relevant authority at the time, would surely be more effective than telling tales posting on here after the fact. It's highly unlikely that the perpetrators of this heinous crime frequent the forum anyway, so his post is largely preaching to the converted. If the OP & et al feel so strongly about the safety & welfare of their fellow man, then say something there & then. Maybe he shied away from doing that, in case he came across as an interfering jobsworth. It's all getting a bit playground with all this interminable "I'm going to tell on you" attitude.

I'll get me coat & spoon
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Old 29 July 2014, 04:31   #14
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As a windsurfer who frequently has big offs & wipeouts at 20-30mph+ its not an issue & no I have never worn a LJ or BA windsurfing & I'll be out in gale force 8's & 9's.
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Old 29 July 2014, 05:51   #15
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this really is a recurring can of worms.
so for what its worth - my thoughts are
that the forum is on the whole a responsible bunch of people and
as such we are not the target audience for lifejacket indignation.
hence some of the "fatigue" on the subject I think.
Ask a lot of rescue professionals and the MAIB,
and the people they would want to reach with the lifjacket message
are those who buy a cheap boat, maybe on a whim,
because they want to go fishing or take their kids out,
and don't know what they are getting themselves into
and don't equip themselves for it.
Hitting the water at speed can hurt, and be extremely disorientating,
and maybe I'm a little too big boned to "skim" on the surface !

IMHO the UK, Like Ireland, should legislate for lifejacket use,
however my thoughts would be to start by legislating for the compulsory use
for children 17 years and under.
I think few responsible boaters would argue with such legislation for kids.
US studies show that children who grew up having to wear a lifejacket,
will be much more likely to wear one as an adult.
I also think that the vast majority of people are law abiding,
and that introducing legislation would see it followed,
especially when accompanied by an education campaign.
Again in the USA, some Lakes in Mississipi mandated lifejacket use, and
lifejacket use rose from 14 per cent to 76 per cent.

WillK - who regulates and enforces lifejacket use in Ireland?
Are there any statistics to back up how effective the legislation in Ireland has been?
Do you read of any prosecutions?
Legislation is toothless unless it can be enforced effectively.

I do agree with PD about the posting of pictures
on the internet of poor lifejacket practice.
You just have to take a look at the bulk of the boating magazines
to see people on all kinds of boats not wearing lifejackets.
For those who want to see some change on lifejacket legislation,
write to your MP and the RYA, and make your voice heard.
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Old 29 July 2014, 07:29   #16
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Didn't know that about the enforcement across the waters interesting.

It is hard to tell in the photo if they had just raced into the cove in which case I would have a LJ on or if they were just moving a bit to re anchor.

I must confess I was in Fowey a couple of weeks ago the weather was hot, blue skies no wind and flat calm I was in a pair of shorts only. So as I meandered up the river at 4knts I did take of my LJ, kill cord remained attached and enjoyed the weather. I weighed up the risk I was in company the water was nice and warm for the UK and I am a good swimmer. Had it been winter and I was in full wet weather gear then the LJ would be on at all times.

Had someone taken a photo of me and posted it on here firstly poor viewers seeing me in just a pair of shorts but I would be a tad annoyed that the person didn't feel they could approach me directly if they had concerns.




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Old 29 July 2014, 09:07   #17
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I seem to remember that there was a move to legislate about wearing lifejackets thirty or so years ago. When the Bill was presented to parliament one MP asked what exactly the bill was trying to prevent.

'Preventing people drowning', said the supporter.

'In that case', said the objector, ' you had better make all car drivers wear lifejackets, for more people drown in cars than they do by falling off boats.'

At that time that statistic was correct. The Bill was thrown out.

Compulsory wearing would mean that, as I row my Avon Redcrest (the biggest lifejacket in the world) in a flat calm to my RIB moored fifty yards offshore, I would have to wear a lifejacket in water that, should my dinghy explode in the heat, I can stand up in and walk ashore.

Perhaps wild swimmers should have to wear lifejackets. After all, they are already in the water and much more likely to drown than the people sitting in the chase boats.
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Old 29 July 2014, 10:20   #18
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Had someone taken a photo of me and posted it on here firstly poor viewers seeing me in just a pair of shorts
Is that the one with all those tyres wrapped around your waist
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Old 29 July 2014, 10:26   #19
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Yes the photos you did I'm sure you had a wide angle lens on!


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Old 29 July 2014, 11:06   #20
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Compulsory wearing would mean that, as I row my Avon Redcrest (the biggest lifejacket in the world) in a flat calm to my RIB moored fifty yards offshore, I would have to wear a lifejacket in water that, should my dinghy explode in the heat, I can stand up in and walk ashore.
I can think of at least three drownings in the last couple of years in just those circumstances - all were WAFIs returning to their nearby yachts. This one was a couple of weeks ago and from my home port - so maybe I'm just overly aware of them at the moment: Search resumes for missing skipper in Co Donegal
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