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Old 20 January 2005, 18:08   #11
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How do you possibly right an upturned rib?
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Old 20 January 2005, 18:15   #12
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Unless you have a self righing system installed I think you would find it impossible to turn it back over unless you have some major help from other boats. Or if your rib is very small you can right using ropes and standing on the upturned hull, lean back etc like righting a small dingy... but its very hard work.
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Old 20 January 2005, 18:23   #13
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The Flatacraft was easy for two to turn back over. We did it the way we were taught on the BSAC boat handlers course which was aimed at Inflatables back then.

Tie the painter (Bowline) to one of the handles on the side, throw it over the hull, then put your feet on the opposite tube and haul yourself up the rope. For the second time that day the boat lands on top of you. In reality you get right out of the water and lean out holding on to the rope. Its easier with two people, you tie painter to the side handle leaving both ends long enough to go over the hull

The Flatacraft Force 4 is only 4 metres, I wouldn't want to try it with anything bigger.

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Old 20 January 2005, 19:25   #14
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do you think you could right them easier if you deflated the side that the boat is pivoting on, I dunno, just asking
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Old 21 January 2005, 03:37   #15
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I have turned many ribs over on purpose!, its great fun!!. We do it to test the PIRS (post imersion restart system) on the engines. I have some pictures of it being done and then recovered, but for some reason i cant seem to be able to put them up on the web site.
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Old 21 January 2005, 03:40   #16
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Ok i'm going to dispell all the myths about how easy it is to flip a rib.

last September we were launching my boat off a shingly beach at Whistable, we use a tractor to launch and recover and have done it lots of times, so we pretty much know what we are doing, on the day we attempted to launch the wind was on shore, it was almost high tide and then was a small swell approx 2 foot dumping on the beach at intervals, i made the desicion that we'd go from the beach as we'd launched like this many times before with no problems, so the driver backed the boat down into the sea and whats supposed to happen at this point is we wait for a low spot, slip the boat off and the crew hold on while the driver jumps on, lowers the engine and away we go, all normally takes about 30 seconds...... however this time the boat slid of the trailer, at the same time a large wave dumped on the back deck swamping it completely and started to spin the boat broad side to the beach, two of us and the tractor driver desperately fought to keep the boat straight but to no avail, the next wave lifted the now side ways on boat up and flipped it over the top of us throwing my crew man onto the beach and pinning me underneath between the seat back and the beach with my head underwater, as the wave fell back i was able to shift my weight sideways and shuffle into the crawl space at the back, the next wave hit and rolled the boat slightly to one side, i saw a shaft of light and went for it and squeezed through as quickly as i could.
Once on the beach in blind panick myself and my crewman grabbed the upside down boat and literally flipped it back up the right way, the tractor driver had started to move as he'd seen what we'd done and quickly backed the trailor into position, we turned the boat and let the next wave ram it nose first up the beach, then attached the winch and literally winched it back up onto the trailer.

Its that easy, a few mis calculations and not reading the signs right and we were now in a who world of pain, luckily my mechanical genius was close by and spent a few hours running, drying and checking over the engine for me, the tubes and hull hadn't sustained any damage at all, i lost a few bits not adequately tied down on the deck and suffered a broken rib and some nasty bruieses for a while.

So what did i learn from this..... Well in this case the A frame definately saved my life, had it not been there i'd have been crushed into the beach harder and wouldn't have been able to squeeze out, the A frame also saved the engine as it was still up in the transit position at the time, the A frame stopped it hitting the beach. Walking back down the beach at low tide it was plainly obvious what had happened, small short dumpy waves hitting a fairly steep beach coupled with the on shore wind had created a nasty situation. This time i'd been lucky, an engine service, some new oil and plugs and a good clean out and the engine is as good as new, the fact it hadn't been running or lowered had saved it being damaged, quick reactions and having my mechanical friend close to hand also prevented further damage.

Now i'll only launch from a slip way into a harbour
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Old 21 January 2005, 04:03   #17
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A cautionary tale of what can go go wrong, will go wrong. Classic Sods law.

Ratty's tale should be heeded and respected. Sure there are some who will critiscise judgement and forethought, but he was out doing it, and can now pass on the warning. This is what the site is all about, exchange of ideas and experiences.

I would like to point out another hazard following inversion, and thats the boat sticking itself to the water like a sucker. As the boat is lifted on a swell the air trapped in the cockpit is pushed out via the elephant trunk, and then closes to prevent anything going back up, after all thats what its for, but there is now no air gap in the cockpit and to right the boat will require a lift of several tonnes to break the air gap or to let air into the void by another means.

I have concidered this dilemma when writing a risk assesment. And am open to other ideas, but I thought of having a 18" length of 1" plastic hose which could be pushed or pulled into the trunk to open it up, allowing air into the void, and making righting much easier.

Also how low can one deflate a tube thats underwater, has anyone tried it?


Tim.
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Old 21 January 2005, 04:30   #18
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Thanks Tim,
Lets image a scenario where your likely to flip a boat at sea, my situation was a unique catastrophic sequence of events happening on a beach, but had i been at sea then it would have been a different matter. It's pretty unlikely that your going to flip the boat on a flat calm sea, even jumping wake is unlikely to cause a capsize unless your really trying, so with this in mind its more than likely to happen when its really rough, so what would the chances of righting the boat be in these conditions and without an inflation bag ?then if you did manage to turn it over what would good would it do you, the boat would be flooded and you'd have no means of propultion and subject to a heavy sea.

What i've learnt and thought about since my experience is A how fast it can go and B what do you do once its gone, at the time my flares and hand held radio were safely stowed in the consol locker and would have been out of reach had it capsized at sea, both of us were wearing the correct safety kit and both had manual inflating gas life jackets which would have prevented us being trapped if it had gone over at sea, the anchor, warp and chain fell out and i lost a few bits of rope which wern't really tied in properly.
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Old 21 January 2005, 04:43   #19
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This is why we are doing the risk assesment. The scenario dictates at the very least you are going to need to alert the emergency services (assuming you are alone) as to your situation. Problem is as you say the onboard vhf is under water and the hand held is in the waterproof bottle under the seat.

I have never experienced an inversion in a powered boat but would treat the righting as a catamaran sailor would.

1) swear
2) check crew
3) swear and pass the blame
4) rig a hand hold
5) stand or sit on the leeward side and lean out
6) swear
7) prepare to be bashed as the boat rights
8) swear
9) swear
10) climb aboard and assess problems
11) swear

I did an experiment quite a few years ago where we let all the tubes down in a Avon 3.0M RIB. We could sink the stern but not the bow, and not once did it try and capsize.
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Old 21 January 2005, 05:37   #20
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Bilge Rat: Glad to hear that you escaped relatively unharmed! It's a scary prospect being caught under the water, pinned down and running out of lung power.

A couple of points.

It's interesting that you say the A-Frame actually saved your life as we tend to look at A-frames as a convenient method of holding nav lights, rader, aerial.......and not generally a piece of prime safety equipment, but what you say makes perfect sense in that particular situation....I shall look at A-frames in a new light! Maybe they should be fitted as standard with this in mind?

My other point, is where in the world do you stick your flares and spare handheld vhf where they are easily accessable should a flip situation occur??

The only way I can see is to have a waterproof container attached to the A-frame by a length of rope but loose so that if the worst did happen and you flipped it wouldn't take a great deal to bob under and pull it out past the tubes or it may get thrown clear and be on the outside of the tubes anyway!?!? I'm stumped.....any bright ideas for this sort of situation welcomed.

Just on a pondering note: If my radio is supposed to work at under 1m of water for 3 hrs or whatever it is, then what's the chance if you can't right the boat of being able to send a DSC alert?! Or should I install and aerial on the bottom of my boat too!?!?

It's all scary stuff and you'd hope that this never happens to anyone, but my eyes have been open to how often this does happen. I always thought it was relatively unusual for a rib to flip.......but obviously not. Sod has a very twisted sense of law!!!

P.S. All the boats that have been flipped and mentioned on here am I right in thinking they are all sub 5m? If so then how much does size play a part? Is there a size big enough that this won't happen and the rib will possibly just get swamped instead of flipped?
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