Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
 
Old 15 July 2013, 08:12   #1
Member
 
Trimix's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Boat name: Hysucat
Make: Hysucat
Length: 8m +
Engine: Twin Suzuki 175's
MMSI: 235102645
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 861
RIBase
What size engine ?

Im starting to look for a RIB, narrowing down the choice and thinking about what i want it for.

Now Im close to a size 6-7m, I need to start to think about what size engine. I plan to use it for cruising round Corsica, diving and just exploring the coast. Me and my wife, two - four others max.

Watersports, diving and fun.

All the boats I look at show a range of engine sizes (typically say 90 up to 150), but Ive no idea what would work best - I dont want to be thrashing a small engine too much, or spending too much on fuel costs for a very fast one if I just go cruising.

I dont really know what size I need for the boats use and expected carrying capacity.

Any thoughts / guidence would be great.
__________________

__________________
Trimix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15 July 2013, 09:20   #2
RIBnet supporter
 
Pikey Dave's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: South Yorks
Boat name: Black Pig
Make: Ribcraft
Length: 5m +
Engine: DF140a
MMSI: 235111389
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 9,199
RIBase
My personal opinion is to fit whatever the max rating is, or just a shade under. An underpowered boat is a perpetual disappointment, it's better to have the horses & not use them( yeah right) than wish you had.
__________________
Rule#2: Never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level & then beat you with experience.
Rule#3: Tha' can't educate pork.
Rule#4:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unkIVvjZc9Y
Pikey Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15 July 2013, 09:39   #3
Member
 
Country: UK - Scotland
Town: Tighnabruaich
Length: no boat
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 10
Have to agree with dave on this one also if I was you I would be looking at 2stroke not 4 so for example the Tohatsu TLDI, Evinrude Etec or Merc Optimax these are all obviously lighter than 4 strokes and offer a better power to weight ratio.
__________________
Tohatsu Outboards service centre & dealer

www.kylesengineering.co.uk
mattvolvo1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15 July 2013, 09:44   #4
RIBnet supporter
 
Pikey Dave's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: South Yorks
Boat name: Black Pig
Make: Ribcraft
Length: 5m +
Engine: DF140a
MMSI: 235111389
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 9,199
RIBase
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattvolvo1 View Post
Have to agree with dave on this one also if I was you I would be looking at 2stroke not 4 so for example the Tohatsu TLDI, Evinrude Etec or Merc Optimax these are all obviously lighter than 4 strokes and offer a better power to weight ratio.
Ohh! It'll kick off now
__________________
Rule#2: Never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level & then beat you with experience.
Rule#3: Tha' can't educate pork.
Rule#4:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unkIVvjZc9Y
Pikey Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15 July 2013, 09:57   #5
Member
 
Trimix's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Boat name: Hysucat
Make: Hysucat
Length: 8m +
Engine: Twin Suzuki 175's
MMSI: 235102645
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 861
RIBase
OK, bigger is better but I dont have to cruise around on full throttle - that makes sence.

However, I thought a 4stroke would be better - lower fuel use, quieter, longer lasting, longer service intervals ? I also thought there were issues regarding emissions etc.
__________________
Trimix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15 July 2013, 10:27   #6
RIBnet supporter
 
Pikey Dave's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: South Yorks
Boat name: Black Pig
Make: Ribcraft
Length: 5m +
Engine: DF140a
MMSI: 235111389
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 9,199
RIBase
[QUOTE=Trimix;554923]
However, I thought a 4stroke would be better -Depends on your definition of "better"
lower fuel use, Nothing between 'em these days
quieter,Probably, but I LOVE the sound of mine
longer lasting,Hmm, not sure where you got that from
longer service intervals, No way, 3 years or 300 hours, no 4 stroke can match that?
I also thought there were issues regarding emissions etc. Nope! a certain make which shall remain nameless in the interest of impartiality, was the 1st brand to get the C.A.R.B. 3 star rating, which is some Californian emissions bollix, but it beat the 4 strokes to it. It was; dunno if it still is; the only 2 stroke outboard allowed on Lake Constance due to its emissions falling below EU 4 stroke requirements[/QUOTE]
Don't rule out 2 strokes, but ultimately buy what suits your needs & pocket.
__________________
Rule#2: Never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level & then beat you with experience.
Rule#3: Tha' can't educate pork.
Rule#4:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unkIVvjZc9Y
Pikey Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15 July 2013, 10:47   #7
Member
 
Trimix's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Boat name: Hysucat
Make: Hysucat
Length: 8m +
Engine: Twin Suzuki 175's
MMSI: 235102645
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 861
RIBase
OK, thats interesting. I wont rule out 2 strokes then. I now need to get some performance info on engines, just to make the buying process even more complicated.

More choice just slows down the decision making process.
__________________
Trimix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15 July 2013, 10:56   #8
Member
 
Country: UK - Scotland
Town: Tighnabruaich
Length: no boat
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 10
I have to agree with everything dave just said! a man after my own heart!
__________________
Tohatsu Outboards service centre & dealer

www.kylesengineering.co.uk
mattvolvo1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15 July 2013, 11:14   #9
Member
 
Maximus's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Wild West
Boat name: No Boat
Make: No Boat
Length: under 3m
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,695
Send a message via AIM to Maximus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pikey Dave View Post
My personal opinion is to fit whatever the max rating is, or just a shade under. An underpowered boat is a perpetual disappointment, it's better to have the horses & not use them( yeah right) than wish you had.
Or even a Shade Over!....Most manufactures use the same Block for several Power Options,weight, handling, and Insurance Cover are defining considerations too....IF they ALL stack up why deprive yourself!?...
__________________
A clever Man learns by his mistakes..
A Wise Man learns by other people's!

The Road to HELL ..is Paved with "Good inventions!"
Maximus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16 July 2013, 03:35   #10
Member
 
Trimix's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Boat name: Hysucat
Make: Hysucat
Length: 8m +
Engine: Twin Suzuki 175's
MMSI: 235102645
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 861
RIBase
OK, so now Im starting to look for a massive engine

Dumb question time - do all engines quote the power properly ? So a 200 Yamaha is the same as a 200 Honda / Mercury etc ? And I assume its horsepower ?

Will they have comparable torque levels, or is it all down to horsepower ?

The other assumption you can correct for me is fuel consumption, I would have thought a 2 stroke would use a lot more fuel than a 4 stroke ?
__________________
Trimix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16 July 2013, 03:51   #11
RIBnet supporter
 
Pikey Dave's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: South Yorks
Boat name: Black Pig
Make: Ribcraft
Length: 5m +
Engine: DF140a
MMSI: 235111389
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 9,199
RIBase
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trimix View Post
OK, so now Im starting to look for a massive engine

Dumb question time - do all engines quote the power properly ? So a 200 Yamaha is the same as a 200 Honda / Mercury etc ? And I assume its horsepower ?

Will they have comparable torque levels, or is it all down to horsepower ?

The other assumption you can correct for me is fuel consumption, I would have thought a 2 stroke would use a lot more fuel than a 4 stroke ?
No disrespect but I think you're going about this 4rse about face. Choose your boat, then choose your engine to suit. WRG fuel, as I said, there's nothing in it these days with the modern DI engines. Torque varies from engine to engine, "generally" a 2 stroke will give you better " grunt" low down, compared to a 4 stroke.(IMO)
__________________
Rule#2: Never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level & then beat you with experience.
Rule#3: Tha' can't educate pork.
Rule#4:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unkIVvjZc9Y
Pikey Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16 July 2013, 04:15   #12
Member
 
Trimix's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Boat name: Hysucat
Make: Hysucat
Length: 8m +
Engine: Twin Suzuki 175's
MMSI: 235102645
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 861
RIBase
Ok, so will a 6-7m boat from one supplier need a similar engine to any other suppliers 6-7m boat ?

I would have thougth they would weigh pretty much the same ?

I do read comments in reviews about differing shaped hulls - given I will be cruising about in very calm seas do I need to pay much attention to this ?

For that sort of use, is one preferable to the other ?

Ive been looking at the Capelli Tempest boats - being the only ones I have found so far that are more suited to cruising around in the Med. All the UK ones seem set up to race round the North Sea

Or I get one made here to a more custom spec ?
__________________
Trimix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16 July 2013, 07:29   #13
RIBnet supporter
 
Pikey Dave's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: South Yorks
Boat name: Black Pig
Make: Ribcraft
Length: 5m +
Engine: DF140a
MMSI: 235111389
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 9,199
RIBase
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trimix View Post
Ok, so will a 6-7m boat from one supplier need a similar engine to any other suppliers 6-7m boat ?

I would have thougth they would weigh pretty much the same ?

I do read comments in reviews about differing shaped hulls - given I will be cruising about in very calm seas do I need to pay much attention to this ?

For that sort of use, is one preferable to the other ?

Ive been looking at the Capelli Tempest boats - being the only ones I have found so far that are more suited to cruising around in the Med. All the UK ones seem set up to race round the North Sea

Or I get one made here to a more custom spec ?
Well, a 6.5m Tempest is rated for 200hp which IMO is plenty, depending on how you're going to load it, You, the missus & a couple of kids is going to be a different story to 1/2 a dozen hairy technical divers & their kit. The next thing is to find out what engines are sold & supported locally to where the boat is based, no good buying brand X if the nearest dealer is 200miles away. Speak to the manufacturer of the boat, they will probably do a turnkey package deal that will be cheaper than buying separate, again, bear in mind after sales & servicing on the engine. When you've narrowed it down, come back & tell us what your options are & ask for opinions, there'll be plenty, trust me
__________________
Rule#2: Never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level & then beat you with experience.
Rule#3: Tha' can't educate pork.
Rule#4:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unkIVvjZc9Y
Pikey Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16 July 2013, 09:29   #14
Member
 
Trimix's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Boat name: Hysucat
Make: Hysucat
Length: 8m +
Engine: Twin Suzuki 175's
MMSI: 235102645
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 861
RIBase
OK, those are some good points. Im planning on keeping it in south west Corsica - where there is a Capelli dealer - so servicing its Yamaha engines should be simple.

I visited the dealership in Proprianno and they seemed professional.

I have access to some land where I can keep it when Im not using it. Basically its going to be me and my wife diving, plus on occasions two/three others as extra, not diving. So thats not a heavy load. I just want the space to be able to picnic on board with the table / sunshade that sort of boat offers.

Its way too hot there for sitting in a boat without shade.

They come supplied with Yamaha engines (4 stroke).

I just need to see if there are any second hand ones available, or do I need to buy a new one.

Interestingly enough the UK dealer is more expensive by a few grand.
__________________
Trimix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16 July 2013, 09:34   #15
Member
 
Country: UK - Scotland
Boat name: Wildheart
Make: Humber/Delta Seasafe
Length: 5m +
Engine: Merc 60 Clamshell
MMSI: 235068449
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,650
I'll leave you guys to the big boat talk, but engine wise when you're on the plane at a given speed they'll all drink much the same - to get the power, you need to burn the fuel. The "big" consumption diifferences happen when you idle a lot - but if you are looking at new, there probably won't be a lot in it.

Now, weight is a whole different discussion.
As already said, all manufacturers tend to use one lump of hardware for between 2 & 4 different HPs - net result is for a given HP, manufacturer A's engine might be significantly lighter then Manufacturer B's. Go up to the next HP and it's the other way round. Ditto comoparing two brands. One may be a no brainer at 150HP, the other way round at 170. Ironically this also applies if you are talking twins (cue raging debate #2 ) where twin smaller HP can actually be lighter than the single biggie. Twin Vs Single is another debate in itself - do a search - there's plenty of discussion on here - just keep an open mind whilst reading It may not be so daft having a "big aux" bearing in mind some of the lumpy stuff I've encountered on that coast of Italy.....

So yeah, find the boat you like, then you can narrow down what to look for to power it. Whatever happens - minimising engine weight will improve the handling.
__________________
9D280 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16 July 2013, 09:58   #16
RIBnet supporter
 
Pikey Dave's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: South Yorks
Boat name: Black Pig
Make: Ribcraft
Length: 5m +
Engine: DF140a
MMSI: 235111389
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 9,199
RIBase
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trimix View Post
OK, those are some good points. Im planning on keeping it in south west Corsica - where there is a Capelli dealer - so servicing its Yamaha engines should be simple.

I visited the dealership in Proprianno and they seemed professional.

I have access to some land where I can keep it when Im not using it. Basically its going to be me and my wife diving, plus on occasions two/three others as extra, not diving. So thats not a heavy load. I just want the space to be able to picnic on board with the table / sunshade that sort of boat offers.

Its way too hot there for sitting in a boat without shade.

They come supplied with Yamaha engines (4 stroke).

I just need to see if there are any second hand ones available, or do I need to buy a new one.

Interestingly enough the UK dealer is more expensive by a few grand.
Buying a decent newish second hand engine, if you can find one, will probably work out dearer than buying a package from the dealer. By the time you've rigged it & bought all the bits that are missing & factored in the warranty. Don't forget you'll need a trailer if you keep it ashore.
__________________
Rule#2: Never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level & then beat you with experience.
Rule#3: Tha' can't educate pork.
Rule#4:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unkIVvjZc9Y
Pikey Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16 July 2013, 10:07   #17
Member
 
Trimix's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Boat name: Hysucat
Make: Hysucat
Length: 8m +
Engine: Twin Suzuki 175's
MMSI: 235102645
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 861
RIBase
Thanks, that makes sence. Ive got some experience in motor bike/car racing, so understand the importance of saving weight.

I would imagine I can get a better deal with a wad of cash than the list price. Also Corsica is a place where who you know matters, Ive some contacts there which may help.

Looking at the list of extras makes me laugh - Hydraulic Steering 1200. Could you use a boat with a large engine without it ??? Would I need arms like Popeye ?

I also see some dealers do Yam engines, others Suzuki. So I suppose its down to the deal they get individually. I will have to do some searching on the forum to read more about engines.
__________________
Trimix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18 July 2013, 01:23   #18
Member
 
Country: UK - Scotland
Town: Glasgow
Boat name: snagglepuss
Make: Shetland
Length: 6m +
Engine: 90 hp Outboard
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 562
Hi

There are a lot of commercial guys who use Yamaha engines and they get 5000+ hours on them and get abused but still come in in good working order. Yams also hold their value very very very well. I still have not seen an etec or optimax with 2,000 + but as you are not planning on doing that and I am guessing will do 50-100 hours per year is this an issue?

as for fuel this is where we disagree big time on here. Every "independent review" I have seen shows it is 10-20% and this does not take into account oil costs.

Again if you are doing low hours then this is less of a problem. if doing high hours it would be more of a concern.

Having said all of that I would go with the make of the the nearest dealer you like and that you are happy with that he will not rip you off.

Dave
__________________
clydeoutboards is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18 July 2013, 02:45   #19
Member
 
Trimix's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Boat name: Hysucat
Make: Hysucat
Length: 8m +
Engine: Twin Suzuki 175's
MMSI: 235102645
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 861
RIBase
Thanks for that reply, I was hoping someone who looked after engines would comment

Im off to Poole in a few weeks time to do my ICC course, so I will take the opportunity to look, learn and ask as much as I can about all these issues.

But, as you pointed out, a good local dealer I can trust should be able to meet my needs for the three/four weeks a year I will use the boat.

This is the dealer Im looking at: Concessionnaire yamaha capelli tempest, distributeur capelli tempest en corse, capelli tempest neuf

Has anyone any experience of them ?
__________________
Trimix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18 July 2013, 03:22   #20
Member
 
Country: Luxembourg
Town: Luxembourg
Boat name: Kalish
Make: Humber Ocean Pro 6.3
Length: 6m +
Engine: 175 Mercury Optimax
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 408
RIBase
if you can, put the maximum HP you can on the boat. you wont spent more fuel as you will maybe do 20 knots under 3000RPM. thses HP will be more than welcome when you boat is haevy loaded, etc ....
__________________

Gilles is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:36.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
×