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Old 16 June 2011, 13:45   #31
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The key to good knot use is once you know the knot learn how to tie it very quickly. The animated site is good and there are a few versions of knots that vary greatly in the speed at which they can be tied. A "one way sheet bend" is an absolute beauty for speed. As is the crossed hands technique if you need to drop a clove hitch over something.

I'm in favour of using a small number of knots too.

Round turn and some half hitches
Bowline
figure of eight
Hunter bend (quick and easy version like a carrick bend but easier)
Clove hitch
Anglers loop knot (excellent if you need to tie a loop in bungee)
Alpine butterfly or variant of
Tying to a cleat
Cylinder sling.
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Old 16 June 2011, 18:15   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polwart View Post
thats kind of the point isn't it?
Erm NO.

If thats what I wanted I would use a bowline.
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Old 17 June 2011, 05:16   #33
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We always teach and use the following knots:

Bowline
Figure of 8
Reef knot
Sheet Bend
Round turn and 2 half hitches.
Clove hitch (is useful but a round turn and 2 half hitches will suffice.)

However personally when I'm afloat I generally only use a bowline and a fig 8 if it's needed.

Hope that helps

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Old 17 June 2011, 08:28   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Stormforce View Post
Erm NO.

If thats what I wanted I would use a bowline.

But the point is that they won't - or shouldn't- undo or give under load! A RTTHH or fishermans bend by being tight around their fastened point will exert a steadytension on the line. If you use a bowline, the slack inthe loop will result in tension coming & going & the line snatching, which you may not want (e.g. towing).

I use a bowline for many things, but not when there will be planned sustained tension on the line.
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Old 17 June 2011, 08:56   #35
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One really handy and really common one at least on the thames is the lightermans hitch. Dead simple and useful for securing to a bollard when there's no horns or the like to tie off to. Can be finished off with a half hitch or whatever you want but the standard variant is used by the thames barges and seems to hold (as well as our 11m ribs).

Knots-guide: Lighterman's hitch

one of the best i've learnt and unties in the frost as no actual 'knot'

steve
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Old 17 June 2011, 17:04   #36
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round turn and 2 half hitches and double sheet bend.......keep it simple

your anchor should be shackled to chain and the anchor rope really should be spliced on....

dont EVER tie a boat with bowlines at both ends..!! tide drops or get mopped up with another boat and theres no way you can untie them once tight
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Old 22 June 2011, 11:39   #37
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Originally Posted by lakelandterrier View Post
But the point is that they won't - or shouldn't- undo or give under load!
Depends on what you're using it for. For, say, an anchor, then yes, you don't want it coming loose. For other things (as in my example above), you may want to be able to free it while some amount of load is still applied. Granted, there are other bends or knots that could be used with better release characteristics while loaded, but that is another matter. The original comment was that an anchor bend can be nearly impossible to get loose once a load has been applied.


Quote:
A RTTHH or fishermans bend by being tight around their fastened point will exert a steadytension on the line. If you use a bowline, the slack inthe loop will result in tension coming & going & the line snatching, which you may not want (e.g. towing).
Not quite sure what you're saying; tension coming and going will cause snatch in the line in either case; the difference in your example is that the bowline will be subjected to a higher overall stress delta, as it will be absorbing the difference between slack and full shock, whereas the tightened hitches maintain some of the tightening force without load applied. Not sure that really makes any difference in your example though; I've never seen a bowline come loose from varying loading (at least, not in any kind of standard marine cordage.)

If you're talking line derating due to the knot, well, that's a whole 'nother kettle of fish [and no, I have no idea where that particular saying came from.]

jky



I use a bowline for many things, but not when there will be planned sustained tension on the line.[/QUOTE]
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Old 25 June 2011, 18:36   #38
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hmm.. glad to see someone else teaches knots. The number of new crew/skippers I see that can barely tie their own shoe laces despite having various bits of paper inc comm adv pwbt. Main things that make me pull out my few remaining bits of hair--
using just the relatively thin pins on a samson post to wrap the rope around to take all the strain instead of putting some turns round the strong main pillar of the post to take the weight and then using the horns to wrap the securing turns round
Putting rope on a cleat the wrong way round so that bit under tension is the bit on top and cannot be released under pressure
Using a knot to secure a commercial boat to anything-you can get away with that with a 6m rib but not with 50 tonnes of metal. Whatever the name of the knot it is gonna end up as a knife knot when he finds it is jammed itself tight!
Do I use a securing hitch after wrapping round a cleat? When I haven't I always end up coming back to put one on cos I dont trust it without.
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Old 26 June 2011, 20:03   #39
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.... cos I dont trust it without.
Me neither.
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Old 27 June 2011, 05:26   #40
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Me neither.
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