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Old 12 June 2011, 07:11   #11
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Thanks for the replies chaps.
The first things I did teach "the crew" is making fast to a cleat (with locking turn!), casting off (and painter recovery / securing it thereof) and the use of a round turn to take strain.

Had',t though of need to teach coiling ropes - but that is fairly important .

I find bowline and clove hitch the most common knots I use, and a double sheet bend if I have to join 2 lengths of line - double sheet bend will hold anything, so why bother with reef knot / single sheet bend?

Figure of 8 is an easy one to learn as a starter & is useful, but I agree not so necessary on a RIB.
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Old 12 June 2011, 07:53   #12
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Originally Posted by gotchiguy View Post
.....Oh and jw, what wrong with the elbow trick (not that we use it just wondering?)
It twists the rope. If the wound rope is simply released to undo it it's likely to be tangled. Other looping methods can also cause the same problem. I find that long loops are a big help in reducing tangles. Also one can coil the rope one turn forehand then one turn backhand so each successive turn twists the opposite way. The result is no twists when released.
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Old 12 June 2011, 07:53   #13
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Oh and jw, what wrong with the elbow trick (not that we use it just wondering?)
It puts a half twist in each coil so that when you uncoil it it kinks like buggery. The same happens with electric flex, that's why the missus's iron has always got broken cores in the cable. When you wind it around the elbow you will notice that the coil tries to form a figure "8" shape, that's the twist trying to get out.
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Old 12 June 2011, 10:19   #14
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Why the superfluous half hitches? All that achieves is a knot that takes longer to undo!
If you use the RTTHH to secure a boat to say a swinging mooring it has been known to undo when there is a lot of movement (snatch in the line), much more so with modern braid on braid and double braid ropes than more traditional 3 plait or hawser laid ropes. The solutions are to ensure you have a long tail end after the half hitches and to tie some extra half hitches.

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No criticism just interested: on both PB1 and PB2 we were taught that it is very bad practice to use the locking turn. Can't really remember why but I always have an argument when frenchies try and do it. 0800 is RYA standard isn't it?
It is a sad fact that hundreds of experienced small boat Instructors have been brain washed into condemning the locking turn. The OXO and 0800 are OK for securing for a few minutes but they are not secure enough to trust your boat to, for long term and I have seen a yacht secured in this manor slip itself free. There are two reasons why the locking turn gained a poor reputation and they both occur when the person tying the cleat does it wrongly.

When tying to a standard T or TT shaped cleat, I recommend one or more round turns around the leg(s) followed by two (preferably more) fig 8s around the 2 horns of the cleat, followed by a locking turn on one of the horns. The locking turn is then gripping onto rope and not onto the metal cleat. Those that miss out the figures of 8s and put the locking turn straight onto the metal horn risk it tightening so much that it literally locks and they can not undo it.

The second problem with locking turns is when one boat ties to a cleat in the manor described above and then a second line is tied over the top. The force of the top line tightening can also cause the locking turn from the first line to lock too tight.

In summary a locking turn used correctly is not a problem and a far better way of tying up the boat than 0800 and OXO. The key points are
  • Use 2 or more Figure of 8s before the locking turn.
  • Dont tie a second line over a locking turn

Those that slander the locking turn have simply misunderstood how to use it correctly.
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Old 12 June 2011, 12:54   #15
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Originally Posted by Doug Stormforce View Post
If you use the RTTHH to secure a boat to say a swinging mooring it has been known to undo when there is a lot of movement (snatch in the line), much more so with modern braid on braid and double braid ropes than more traditional 3 plait or hawser laid ropes. The solutions are to ensure you have a long tail end after the half hitches and to tie some extra half hitches.
OK, but that's a fiarly specific situation. I wouldn't have thought that is was enough reason to train people to do lots of extra half hitches.

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In summary a locking turn used correctly is not a problem and a far better way of tying up the boat than 0800 and OXO. The key points are
  • Use 2 or more Figure of 8s before the locking turn.
  • Dont tie a second line over a locking turn
And it only needs one locking turn, not on every turn as often seen.

I think I can probably have a guess, but I'll bite anyway. What's 0800 and OXO?
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Old 12 June 2011, 13:08   #16
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I think I can probably have a guess, but I'll bite anyway. What's 0800 and OXO?
Alternatives (that I am not very fond of) that often get taught/used for securing to a cleat instead of a hitch/locking turn.

0800 (as in the freephone number) is round turn, fig 8, 2 more round turns
OXO (pronounced like the gravy granules) is a round turn, fig 8 round turn
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Old 12 June 2011, 13:10   #17
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OXO = whole turn round cleat (O), cross over twice (X), whole turn again (O)

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Old 12 June 2011, 14:05   #18
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Originally Posted by Max... View Post
the higwayman's hitch as I grew up with cowboy films and loved when they pulled the rope to release the horse... LOL
I use that to tie up the dog when I'm having coffee.


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Old 12 June 2011, 14:09   #19
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The Missus prefers the Snowball hitch. It melts when the sun's out.
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Old 12 June 2011, 17:12   #20
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if you cant tie knots, tye lots!!!!!
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