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Old 21 June 2005, 16:12   #11
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Originally Posted by Matt Riley

The other massively impractical thing that I don't like is that the RYA say that you have to be wearing the killcord while you start the engine on the manual start engines? Does anyone else find this makes it difficult to start a tiller steered outboard while you have the cord attached around the shoulder of your buoyancy aid (as per RYA recommendations)?
ERRRR!
Sorry but where does it say you attach the killcord to the shoulder of your buoyancy aid.Try it round your leg next time. It's much easier.When do i not wear a kill cord beach launch and leeshore recovery .
Tim Griffin RLSS.UK Rescueboat Trainer Assessor
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Old 21 June 2005, 17:48   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Glatzel
Solent Ranger



Take it you mean it's one of yours then David - what were you demoing at the time??!!??


Paul

PS: For the avoidence of doubt (& litigation) this is a joke!

Cheeky bugger! As it happens I was own boating on a Bayliner 2885 - ask Tim G and Simon H. We were all doing our anchoring in the same place on Sunday.

Honest guv, not a word of a lie Anyway, we didn't have a boat down here this weekend

How's things with you?
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Old 22 June 2005, 11:25   #13
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where mine round my wrist , when i remember , but i dont think about it untill we are actually pickin up speed !
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Old 22 June 2005, 11:33   #14
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Originally Posted by tim griffin
ERRRR!
Sorry but where does it say you attach the killcord to the shoulder of your buoyancy aid.Try it round your leg next time. It's much easier.When do i not wear a kill cord beach launch and leeshore recovery .
Tim Griffin RLSS.UK Rescueboat Trainer Assessor
Errr...On the big blue poster which was sent to all clubs and RTEs last year with nice pictures of David Ritchie (RYA National Sailing Coach) sitting on one of the avon adventure ribs from the youth rib challenge. It states that the killcord should be attached round the leg in centre console boats, and for boats like commandoes and SIBs with the tiller steered outboards, it states that you should wear it around the shoulder of the BA (ie not around the wrist). Also produced were some rather snazzy white and blue RYA stickers entitled 'guidelines for safety boat users' which are prominently displayed on a number of club safety craft which if i remember correctly, the sentiment is also expressed on. It is also taken verbatim from Di Tillsley's (RTE inspector) advice from an inspection which I was present at about 18 months ago and raised this specific issue.

Having said this though, it does make a lot of sense to put it round the leg if the cord is long enough, although I generally only clip on once I've got the engine running (in neutral)
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Old 22 June 2005, 11:40   #15
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How many people put their seatbelt on before starting the car?
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Old 22 June 2005, 11:47   #16
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Have to say I am a bit anal when it comes to this.
Always have mine on no matter what.
Have not come across a sittuation where it is a hinderence.

On the patrol boat, the cox always has it on no matter what we are doing.
He/she drives the boat and does not, 99.99% of the time, get involved with what the crew are doing.
Surely this should be the case for the RNLI boy and girls too?

If you want to know if an RNLI crew can fall out of the boat just ask the crew from Whitstable!!!

The dangers of a run away boat are huge.
The Southampton Boat Show story goes to prove this.

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Old 22 June 2005, 11:52   #17
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Hannah

1. Do wear the killcord! - get into the habit of always putting it on. Why not create a competition when you go boating - person who fails to put it on has to do a dare or something - you'll all soon remember! In the link posted had the person fallen out still be near the boat then they would be underneath it as it circles. You can envisage the mess you would leave on the prop! 2. Don’t use your wrist. On your craft wear it round the knee – around the wrist it has the potential to slip off too easily

Regarding your post Matt the key point it that it is looped round something and clipped back PROPERLY onto the cord. You will form a view on what serves the boat your are using best as to whether that is the knee or not but as you state certainly not the wrist.

As an aside there is a report on the MAIB website on a RIB crossing the Solent that lost its helmsman, he was not clipped on properly (although his killcord was attached), the RIB continued into Hamble Point Car Park and he was lucky to be rescued as was heard shouting by a passing yacht – it was dark.

Paul
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Old 22 June 2005, 15:16   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Riley
Errr...On the big blue poster which was sent to all clubs and RTEs last year with nice pictures of David Ritchie (RYA National Sailing Coach) sitting on one of the avon adventure ribs from the youth rib challenge. It states that the killcord should be attached round the leg in centre console boats, and for boats like commandoes and SIBs with the tiller steered outboards, it states that you should wear it around the shoulder of the BA (ie not around the wrist). Also produced were some rather snazzy white and blue RYA stickers entitled 'guidelines for safety boat users' which are prominently displayed on a number of club safety craft which if i remember correctly, the sentiment is also expressed on. It is also taken verbatim from Di Tillsley's (RTE inspector) advice from an inspection which I was present at about 18 months ago and raised this specific issue.

Having said this though, it does make a lot of sense to put it round the leg if the cord is long enough, although I generally only clip on once I've got the engine running (in neutral)
Well you live and learn something new everyday . So my killcord is attached to my BA (EXCEPT WE WEAR LIFEJACKETS) no chance of getting tangled up in that then , think i will stick to the way we teach in the RLSS and thats around your leg, think also I will stick to the way I teach when I do RYA safety boats sorry to be negative next time I am inspected I shall mention it. Its an interesting one thats for sure but i am still not convinced it's best practice but alway's keen to learn.

Oh Paul
sorry mate Dave is right flash bugger was swanning around in a Binliner with a nice awning to keep the nasty sun off his fair features , poor old me an Simon were toughing it out in the sun doing our bit for Ambre Solaire factor 30.
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Old 22 June 2005, 15:35   #19
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Killcords

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Brooks
Have to say I am a bit anal
As they say on Sky Sports - you can stop it there!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Brooks
the cox always has it on Surely this should be the case for the RNLI boy and girls too?
And yes, probably 90% of the time it would make sense. But how many peeps have suddenly "lost" engine power or struggled with a restart only to look about sheepishly after a minute or two of puzzlement - thanks to passing crew, leaning across for something, etc...E.g. crew positioning to board a cas vsl in wx, caught in mast/rigging over the side of a dinghy, etc.

HQ has seriously reviewed this. Despite being volunteers, we are subject to the full rigour of H&S and all that entails. HQ, and I think most crew would agree, continue to hold the position that it's safer without. The probability of losing power at the wrong moment is perceived to be greater than the probability of all three (trained) ILB crew (with toestraps & secure seating, & generally hanging on) falling out as a result of the boat not going past 90deg. (mercury tilt switch kills engines past that). A further consideration is the quality of PPE worn by the crews - there is evidence out there that someone, wearing a Gecko, was struck on the head by a s/s propellor at full chat and escaped (!) with a hairline cranial fracture.

Also, while our boats can do many great and scary things they actually don't do it very fast or with huge acceleration ! 32kts is full chat on an Atlantic with 3 up.

And another thought..there is no ignition key switch on an ILB - very hard to waterproof - same goes for the killswitch. Maybe a reason why some don't work?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Brooks
If you want to know if an RNLI crew can fall out of the boat just ask the crew from Whitstable!!!
Now now Jon...they didn't fall out of the boat more than the boat fell over on them!

But to end my rant - when on any powerboat other than the ILB - absolutely 100% no exceptions to wearing it unless stepping away from the helm & therefore boat in neutral or engine off.

Cheers & be safe out there

RR
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Old 22 June 2005, 17:55   #20
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I guess that the fundamental thing is that we all wear killcords (and not around our wrists). Because I'm just a humble dinghy inst'r and safety boat driver, i'm required to wear one most of the time when I'm driving as the chances are that i'm being paid to do it. It naturally comes under the policy that many centres have where all staff are obliged to use PBs in a careful and responsible way.

Its just about getting into good habits which will 99% of the time stand you in good stead.

I was just curious about the reasons why the RNLI don't believe that killcords are right for them. Now I know, and thats the great thing about RIBnet!

Just one thought though for the atlantic boys. How about setting the throttle friction so that the levers return to slow idle when the helm is not holding the throttles (a bit like you can do on the tiller steered OBMs)? This would have a similar effect if the helm falls out, without the legitimate problems associated with wearing killcords.

Anyway, this is the end of my relatively inexperienced and slightly opinionated ramblings on the subject!
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