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Old 21 December 2007, 11:58   #61
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What do you lot mean by "swiftwater rescue " moving water as in flowing rivers etc is what comes to mind .
Is there a new body or course for rescue training in moving water ?
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Old 21 December 2007, 12:05   #62
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Is there a new body or course for rescue training in moving water ?
yus dis lott doo itt

http://www.balawatersports.com/Bala/Rescue%203.htm

de dowen syde iz yew av too gow too wails

garF
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Old 21 December 2007, 12:56   #63
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What do you lot mean by "swiftwater rescue " moving water as in flowing rivers etc is what comes to mind .
I think that's pretty much it - the need for it was highlighted in the summer floods :

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/humber/7144248.stm
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Old 21 December 2007, 12:58   #64
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It's a sobering thought when you realise that more people drown inland than at sea in the UK, and that until recently the biggest killer of emergency service personnel both here and in the States was water.

Flood / Swiftwater rescue is a relatively new concept, which as per usual took a number of fatalities before it was recognised. At least now it is beginning to be taken seriously, and emergency services and responders are training appropriately.

Sadly though, as with all things, there are a few diehards who believe that because they've got away with old techniques for years, there is no need to retrain. That's getting fewer and farther between though.

New concept ??
The BCU have run courses and qualifications in moving water for many years .
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Old 21 December 2007, 13:29   #65
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The concept is more toward rescue of stranded non-water users in urban environments rather than the BCU approach which is, quite naturally, geared to those already familiar with some of the hazards in that environment.

The swiftwater rescue concept grew up in the States, most notably triggered by the death of 6 LA policemen who all, consecutively, jumped in a fast flowing storm drain to assist a child swept away further up the system. Fire services realised they were deploying crews to water incidents with no training, traditional firefighting kit, and were losing an alarming amount of crew.

Hazard perception and search / rescue techniques have grown up within this new, and still evolving, area, from basic reach / throw rescues to more advanced wier rescue and highline techniques.
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Old 21 December 2007, 13:43   #66
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Many rescue training organisations are now making this distinction between Whitewater and Swiftwater.

Basically it's the same thing, water moving down a slope. However, whitewater rescue courses are targetted at kayakers and canoeists who will be familiar with the environment, and "reading" the water, and have access to certain limited bits of kit, often they'll be travelling as a group - so a lot of the course is about self-rescue, and prevention, as well as rescue methods.

Swiftwater rescue is targetted at rescue organisation such as the Fire Services, the Environment Agencies, Police Forces, and the RNLI. The types of equipment that these organisations will have access to is different, and so is the content of the course. It will also cover rescue in flooding situations, and the hazmat issues and so on.

Whilst there is a significant overlap between the two, I feel that they are distinct subject areas, with distinct audiences. The same applies to say First Aid at Work, and First Aid Afloat, or Wilderness First Aid.

Swiftwater rescue in the UK, only really took off after the death of Paul Metcalfe in 1999. Even now, it's vastly under-resourced when compared to other rescue areas - particularly when you look at the damage caused and lives losts through flooding in comparison with other specialist areas.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/439236.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/2381329.stm

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Old 21 December 2007, 13:46   #67
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I'm not sure whether the stat's are still accurate today, but I do remember reading a few years back that one third of all deaths "on duty" of rescue professionals were water related.

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Old 21 December 2007, 15:43   #68
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The concept is more toward rescue of stranded non-water users in urban environments rather than the BCU approach which is, quite naturally, geared to those already familiar with some of the hazards in that environment.

I don't see what the difference is a person standed and in need of rescue is just that, wether or not they are familiar with their surroundings or not . If they are experienced then they may be easier to help thats all .

The swiftwater rescue concept grew up in the States, most notably triggered by the death of 6 LA policemen who all, consecutively, jumped in a fast flowing storm drain to assist a child swept away further up the system. Fire services realised they were deploying crews to water incidents with no training, traditional firefighting kit, and were losing an alarming amount of crew.

That was sad , they probably had a rope but did't know how to use it .

Hazard perception and search / rescue techniques have grown up within this new, and still evolving, area, from basic reach / throw rescues to more advanced wier rescue and highline techniques.
Just some of the techniques the BCU have been using for years . Its a shame its seen a new area , as the very basics like not tying around the waist could have already saved lives . Other systems used in rescue have been learned from rock climbers and mountaineers etc, its a shame the white water guys are not being exploited here
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Old 21 December 2007, 17:42   #69
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Just some of the techniques the BCU have been using for years . Its a shame its seen a new area , as the very basics like not tying around the waist could have already saved lives . Other systems used in rescue have been learned from rock climbers and mountaineers etc, its a shame the white water guys are not being exploited here
They are.

All of the top guys that are responsible for delivering Swiftwater Rescue Training in the UK (through Rescue 3 and Rig Systems) have a strong background in whitewater paddling of some sort - either kayaking or canoeing. Indeed, Rescue 3 UK has very strong links with the Welsh Canoe Association.

By "new area", I think what is meant, is that the Fire Services have only recently taken it on as an area of rescue responsibility. It would be inaccurate to interpret that as meaning people are starting from scratch with knowledge and skills base.

Swiftwater rescue is very heavily influenced by whitewater technology... if you look at the kit that the Fire Services is investing in... most of it is kayak kit. I really don't feel that anybody is re-inventing the wheel here.

Cheers,
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Old 21 December 2007, 18:00   #70
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They are.

All of the top guys that are responsible for delivering Swiftwater Rescue Training in the UK (through Rescue 3 and Rig Systems) have a strong background in whitewater paddling of some sort - either kayaking or canoeing. Indeed, Rescue 3 UK has very strong links with the Welsh Canoe Association.

By "new area", I think what is meant, is that the Fire Services have only recently taken it on as an area of rescue responsibility. It would be inaccurate to interpret that as meaning people are starting from scratch with knowledge and skills base.

Swiftwater rescue is very heavily influenced by whitewater technology... if you look at the kit that the Fire Services is investing in... most of it is kayak kit. I really don't feel that anybody is re-inventing the wheel here.

Cheers,
WMM

Thats good . As other posts have pointed out firemen and poicemen etc have been getting into problems for years , as they are often the first on scene but lack the skills and knowlege as well as basic equipment .
Even the RLSS covers some of the basic water rescue knowlege they could use .
I think the situation this year 2 specials did nothing while a child drowned in a pond was about as bad as it gets .
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