Wearing PFDs - the debate again - Page 2

willk · 29 July 2012, 11:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by gohelm

I am actually suprised it is not a legal requirement to wear a lifejacket in any fast open motorboats in the UK? Driving around when it is POSSIBLE to operate the boat while standing up in the Netherlands as well as not having lifejackets 'grab ready ' for all on board will will mean a huge fine..(and the waterrozzers DO check)

I don't understand what the "standing up" part of your post means?

I think that a "grab ready" lifejacket is a silly concept on a fast open boat - there are so many scenarios where it will be useless.

There has been life jacket (and drug/alcohol) legislation in Ireland for many years now. It is largely ignored and I've never heard of it being enforced in any way. A shame as there have been many deaths in this time, most of which would not have occurred had the individuals been wearing a PFD.

kerny · 29 July 2012, 13:41

Education not legislation for me.

gohelm · 29 July 2012, 17:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by willk

I don't understand what the "standing up" part of your post means?

I think that a "grab ready" lifejacket is a silly concept on a fast open boat - there are so many scenarios where it will be useless.

There has been life jacket (and drug/alcohol) legislation in Ireland for many years now. It is largely ignored and I've never heard of it being enforced in any way. A shame as there have been many deaths in this time, most of which would not have occurred had the individuals been wearing a PFD.

Standing up as in opposite to being seated, includes most RIBs ;-)
Grab ready is a free translation and yes I do agree it's stupid in 99 pct of the cases
The fine is actually 40 euros for 1 vest upto 120 euros ( fined to skipper) for more 'offender's on same boat
The shame part not wearing a PFD : yes agree ; (like the german sailing coach who passed away actually took a wee on a moving boat (found it doing 10 knots) without wearing a lifejacket an without kill cord..)

m chappelow · 29 July 2012, 17:41

Anyone ever tried to put a lifejacket on in the water
You may stand a chance with a bouyancy aid
But trying to put on a compact auto /inflate one if its gone off very much doubt it especially in cold water with heavy clothing and then trying to start adjusting straps to have it float your face above water proper .
That is if it works at all !

When I used to do boat safety talks for the Rnli the first thing I did was to pick a member of the audience and go through a short scenario of not wearing a pfd on a yacht or motor boat and suddenly finding yourself in the water or sinking fast through being holed or collision
all food for thought but a sobering one .

As a member of the ,, sudden overboard club ,, at speed About 30 years ago and had I not been wearing one and a fellow crew member saw me go in
I doubt that I would have survived , I was totally disorientated /winded / in shock and had my left shoulder discolated .

chewy · 29 July 2012, 19:34

Oi, Irish rib nobber, do you mean PFD and not PDF?

willk · 29 July 2012, 19:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by chewy

Oi, Irish rib nobber, do you mean PFD and not PDF?

Yes Puddin', I did, and it was worrying me. However, now that you have registered your concern, I can activate me Mod levers without fear of Administatorial Reprisal...

Cookee · 30 July 2012, 12:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by gohelm

I am actually suprised it is not a legal requirement to wear a lifejacket in any fast open motorboats in the UK? Driving around when it is POSSIBLE to operate the boat while standing up in the Netherlands as well as not having lifejackets 'grab ready ' for all on board will will mean a huge fine..(and the waterrozzers DO check)

I'm sure there's a Dutch RIB manufacturer that is always getting stick about not wearing lifejackets in their photos and videos on here ............

willk · 30 July 2012, 13:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cookee

I'm sure there's a Dutch RIB manufacturer that is always getting stick about not wearing lifejackets in their photos and videos on here ............

Yes there is - I was being Diplomatically Forgetful.

steco1958 · 30 July 2012, 15:05

Have a look at this:

Bass Boat Crash - YouTube

Dhf · 30 July 2012, 15:41

That looked crazy dangerous,

but I don't think a rib would stern flip like that.

two stroke mick · 30 July 2012, 15:48

In the ROI it is the law that a person must wear a PFD if the boat is under 7m in lenght. Generally speaking this is the case

TSM

steco1958 · 30 July 2012, 16:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragonhawk ficht

That looked crazy dangerous,

but I don't think a rib would stern flip like that.

Its not the type of boat that i was getting at !!

When a problem happens at speed, there is no time to use a grab device as stated previously.

Have a closer look at the wake he traveled across not that big either, makes you think.

9D280 · 30 July 2012, 16:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerny

so a sudden movement which doesn't have to be fast can throw a person overboard if they are not expecting it.

Rewind a fortnight to the Forth & Clyde. There were we, my dad having driven a good chunk of the way started to do his 3 point turn at the wheel. This is the man whose usual "canal steed" clocks in at 40 odd tons.

So, on semi autopilot, he put the helm hard over and opened up with a WOT blip in exactly the way I would to kick the stern round were I turning a 40 ton narroboat in a circle about 10 foot longer than the boat. Had I stood up to sort the mooring warps 1 second earlier, I'd have been swimming. As it happened I ended up on my @rse on the floor.

Here was someone who has been afloat on a huge variety of boats for the last 60 odd years and it was down to chance that I didn't go swimming. I have knocked my thottle accidentally on a slow cruise at least three times I can remember, both up & down.

The time you need the LJ is when you least expect it.

I bet we all automatically put our seatbelts on as soon as we get in the car......

SPR · 31 July 2012, 01:38

SPR · 31 July 2012, 02:42

Cold Water Shock.mp4 - YouTube

Peter_C · 31 July 2012, 05:17

You guys want to cover up the hot girls in bikini's? What is wrong with you?

There are many times a life jacket is a required safety item, but please don't have the government force me to wear one all of the time. Pro-Choice!

GJ0KYZ · 31 July 2012, 06:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPR

Good advert that. I've used it to persuade a pensioner with 60 years boating experience to start wearing his lifejacket.

Cookee · 31 July 2012, 08:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragonhawk ficht

That looked crazy dangerous,

but I don't think a rib would stern flip like that.

Interested in your thought process - tubes would have made no difference at all to what happened to that boat IMHO.

Speaking as someone who has raced and operated high performance boats for a while now I would say it's not only possible it's likely at those sorts of speeds!

Dhf · 31 July 2012, 17:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cookee

Interested in your thought process - tubes would have made no difference at all to what happened to that boat IMHO.

Speaking as someone who has raced and operated high performance boats for a while now I would say it's not only possible it's likely at those sorts of speeds!

I stand corrected if you say it could hapen to a rib it probably could. I Fully respect your hours of experienced opinion there Cookee, I've watched that vid a few times now and that boat looks twitchy and poorly balanced from the start,with that poorly positioned helm seating and his weight, the boat seems to constantly lean to starboard whenever he gets the slightest bit of air, I just reckon that sponsons would have made a big difference upon launch and landing, I was shocked when I hit a pilot boat wake last year in relatively calm water at wot,

not intentionaly, and my rib took off like that, fortunatly we landed pretty good, I remember feeling the hull and sponsons touch down first which threw the bow down and we continued until I shut back 3 seconds later to reflect the experience, and check my mate was still hanging on the dive bottle rack, the pilot boat was a mile away btw. I also fully agree with Lj's we were wearing high impact ones,