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Old 20 November 2018, 04:11   #1
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Waterproof Offshore Suits

My apologies if this has been done before, but my initial searching didn't throw much up.

With the new RIB due to arrive next month I'm looking for waterproof & windproof outer layers for SWMBO and myself.

This will have to be two piece (Bib trousers & jacket) and look reasonable or else SWMBO won't wear it.

Mostly for winter day trips locally for pub lunch etc, so needs to look reasonable .

I've looked at the sailing offshore suits (Musto, HH, Gill etc).

Can anyone recommend anything from personal experience?
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Old 20 November 2018, 04:29   #2
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This is what myself and most of my mates use. (100Kg Floatation) Lots of professionals in them too......

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FLADEN-RE...Skdw:rk:2:pf:0

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Old 20 November 2018, 04:51   #3
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Iíve used Mullion two piece for years nice and cosy
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Old 20 November 2018, 05:45   #4
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Iíve still got this.

Mullion X5000 flotation suit
Mullion X5000 flotation suit
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Old 20 November 2018, 06:18   #5
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I bought a pair of fish eagle suits and no complaints, think they are 100 quid now from Glasgow angling centre online.

You should perhaps research life jacket options if you don't already have 275nm jackets to make sure you are happy to go along with the suits.

It is a debatable subject of no jacket versus underspec so just putting out there the recommended option is 275nm jacket with your floatation suit.
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Old 20 November 2018, 06:42   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xk59D View Post
........
You should perhaps research life jacket options if you don't already have 275nm jackets to make sure you are happy to go along with the suits.

It is a debatable subject of no jacket versus underspec so just putting out there the recommended option is 275nm jacket with your floatation suit...........
Got to disagree with you on this one.

I don't doubt a 275 is more likely to "roll" you than a 190 or a 150 but either has a better chance of doing it than no life jacket and the higher you're held out the water the less "conduction loss".
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Old 20 November 2018, 06:55   #7
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I already gave you (edit, I might have posted it here or emailed, can't mind) the recommended documentation on this month's ago, it clearly said no jacket or 275nm.

As you know, my old man 35 years at sea and that is also what they do which is per the guidelines on it from MCA (I assume that is where it came from as it was a RMAS and then serco for last 15 years)

If you are unconcious a float suit and life jacket is going to probably try to put you face down or atleast fight each other......a float suit won't on its own.

Until I buy a 275 jacket I won't be wearing my 175 and float suit but to each their own.
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Old 20 November 2018, 08:06   #8
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Here you go, found something-

Lifejackets - The most important Newbie Question!

For those who don't want to link to the thread- (the link appears to be broken now so be curious to see if they have updated it if anyone finds it)

i found this on mullion site- (http://mullion-pfd.com/en/technical/...and-lifejacket)

A floatation garment or buoyancy aid should only be worn on their own, when working close to land and by competent swimmers or where help is close to hand.

A 150 Newton should only be used where light weight clothing is being worn and no heavy tools being carried. It is not recommended to the used with a flotation suit or a dry suit as it is possible that it will not self-right you in conjunction with this type of clothing.

A 275 Newton should be used where heavy weight clothing is being worn or tools are being carried, or when wearing a flotation suit of dry suit.

----------

@OP

Sorry for slight derail but thought worth putting out there as it may add considerable cost to your plan depending on what you want to do/have already.
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Old 20 November 2018, 08:27   #9
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Not carrying heavy tools, it is possible that it won't right you "if unconscious" a 275 is more likely to.
But you're not likely to be unconscious, We're no going to get hit with a jib or a tackle block, fall 20ft from the deck of a cargo boat etc.

So my point would still be a 150 is better than nothing. With that bouyancy in the right place it's still going to try a roll you. Certainly won't make things worse.

I've done the RYA's "Sea survival" course and played with life jackets and bouyancy aids, spent years with them dive training and diving and 100kg of distributed bouyancy in a suit certainly isn't going to roll you without a life jacket.
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Old 20 November 2018, 10:19   #10
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Not carrying heavy tools, it is possible that it won't right you "if unconscious" a 275 is more likely to.
But you're not likely to be unconscious, We're no going to get hit with a jib or a tackle block, fall 20ft from the deck of a cargo boat etc.

So my point would still be a 150 is better than nothing. With that bouyancy in the right place it's still going to try a roll you. Certainly won't make things worse.

I've done the RYA's "Sea survival" course and played with life jackets and bouyancy aids, spent years with them dive training and diving and 100kg of distributed bouyancy in a suit certainly isn't going to roll you without a life jacket.
People can decide if they think one argument outweighs the other but I'm going with mullion (I found similar for my jackets at time) and my old man. (Who at the time says it came from MCA, but he also said rightly things can change)
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Old 20 November 2018, 10:31   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xk59D View Post
... it clearly said no jacket or 275nm.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xk59D View Post
Here you go, found something-
i found this on mullion site- (http://mullion-pfd.com/en/technical/...and-lifejacket)

A floatation garment or buoyancy aid should only be worn on their own, when working close to land and by competent swimmers or where help is close to hand...
I think you are misreading it (and Mullion could probably have done a better job of wording it).

What I believe that is actually saying is:

1. Don't rely on just a flotation suit unless you are close to shore or help.

2. If you are wearing a flotation suit with a lifejacket, you should wear 275N to be sure the lifejacket does what you expect.

However, I don't see anywhere it is suggesting that 150N + Float suit would be worse than the float suit on its own. To be clear I'm not advocating that (although I have done it, have even been for a wee swim like that - where I had no difficulties).

Its also worth bearing in mind that 275N without extra kit on is a PITA to move in once in the water so you will possibly be relying on help even if you slip off the pontoon, or untying a mooring rope.
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Old 20 November 2018, 10:47   #12
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Can anyone recommend anything from personal experience?
Yup - burds don't like flotation suits - makes them look like sacks of sh1t.

IMO stick with the aforementioned "I'm a Sailor" suits like HH, Musto or Gill. Layer up and wear a lifejacket - simples.

I've been using Gill OS2 for a few seasons - holding up well.
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Old 20 November 2018, 10:54   #13
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I'm not misreading, looks like you are though?

They may have been able to write it better I grant you.

it does clearly say not to wear 2 things (and certainly not a 150 jacket). Plus the float suit should have 275 jacket, what can't speak can't lie.

Im listening to my dad who knows far more about it than me. I haven't worn a life jacket with my suits for years (although I'm going to buy 275 soon yes) which is what they also had to do unless in full survival suits or in boiler suit and life jacket, I found this link much later as it came up in one of our dinner tables on a day out with the other lads. The link didn't change my mind on it one iota.

If someone knows of more updated guidelites I'm all ears as time and equipment moves on but that link was working in 2017 when I posted it so reasonably recent.
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Old 20 November 2018, 10:58   #14
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I went with the the gill os2 jacket and salopettes
My Mrs preferred a hh set
She liked the colours better lol
Can't give an opinion on use yet as I am going out for the first time on Sunday hopefully.
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Old 20 November 2018, 11:16   #15
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I'm not misreading, looks like you are though?
You think it is not saying effectively what I wrote at points 1 and 2?

Why then does their site that you linked to say:

https://mullion-pfd.com/en/technical...and-lifejacket
Quote:
A floatation garment or buoyancy aid should only be worn on their own, when working close to land and by competent swimmers or where help is close to hand.

An automatic inflation lifejacket should always be worn, ideally together with a floatation garment, when working away from the shore, when the wearer is not a competent swimmer, or when there is no help close to hand.
and

https://mullion-pfd.com/en/technical...tion-with-suit

Quote:
It is strongly recommended that a 275 Newton lifejacket is worn in conjunction with a flotation suit to guarantee self-righting in the water. The inherent buoyancy in a flotation suit (or the trapped air in a dry suit) will counteract the buoyancy of a lifejacket. Consequently a 150 Newton level of lifejacket is not always guaranteed to turn you as it has less force.

If they meant - "never wear a float suit with a 150N lifejacket, because it is actually more dangerous than wearing a float suit without any lifejacket" as you seem to think, they have missed a fairly major opportunity to say exactly that.
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Old 20 November 2018, 12:35   #16
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You think it is not saying effectively what I wrote at points 1 and 2
Nope.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poly View Post
Ask Mullion, not me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poly View Post

If they meant - "never wear a float suit with a 150N lifejacket, because it is actually more dangerous than wearing a float suit without any lifejacket" as you seem to think, they have missed a fairly major opportunity to say exactly that.
They said, and I quote the relevant -

A 150 Newton should only be used where light weight clothing is being worn. It is not recommended to the used with a flotation suit

A 275 Newton should be used when wearing a flotation suit.

If (since you hypothesis) they meant anything other than a 151-275 works with a floatation suit they would/could have said so equally....ask Mullion if you speak to them and I'll let my old boy know to let serco Denholm know, it is possible they were wrong and subsequently changed (he retired a few years ago ish)

You cannot and I cannot possibly argue the middle ground is okay (or not actually)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Xk59D View Post

It is a debatable subject of no jacket versus underspec so just putting out there the recommended option is 275nm jacket with your floatation suit.
Nothing I said there is incorrect as per their own guidance.

Lastly on this matter, life jacket on own will right you (theory), floatation suit on own will right you (theory), both of them in the mix and all bets are off as at the time of writing this I have no other info, only 275 million say works. So for my money it is float suit and 275 ideally until I see other documentation on it. One thing about sea regulations is they change like the wind so happy to see other documents on it if you find specific info.
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Old 20 November 2018, 13:51   #17
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Nope.



Ask Mullion, not me



They said, and I quote the relevant -

A 150 Newton should only be used where light weight clothing is being worn. It is not recommended to the used with a flotation suit

A 275 Newton should be used when wearing a flotation suit.

If (since you hypothesis) they meant anything other than a 151-275 works with a floatation suit they would/could have said so equally....ask Mullion if you speak to them and I'll let my old boy know to let serco Denholm know, it is possible they were wrong and subsequently changed (he retired a few years ago ish)

You cannot and I cannot possibly argue the middle ground is okay (or not actually)




Nothing I said there is incorrect as per their own guidance.

Lastly on this matter, life jacket on own will right you (theory), floatation suit on own will right you (theory), both of them in the mix and all bets are off as at the time of writing this I have no other info, only 275 million say works. So for my money it is float suit and 275 ideally until I see other documentation on it. One thing about sea regulations is they change like the wind so happy to see other documents on it if you find specific info.
Sometimes your overweaning desire to score a point overcomes your intention to provide useful information.

Mullion et al cannot recommend less than 275N as by definition, a lifejacket MUST float you face up when unconscious. A flotation suit does not have such a restriction but when you introduce a lifejacket into the equation, the combination can only be recommended IF they float you face up while unconscious. A 275N fits the spec, but a 150N will work better than a suit alone to support you in the water - it won't do you any harm. I suspect you know this and you're just tempting Santa Clause (who should really know better but it HAS been a bit quiet). I'd be wary of holding "Contrary Opinions"...
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Old 20 November 2018, 14:38   #18
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Edit, deleted-For an easy life you and poly are probably right.....
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Old 20 November 2018, 15:32   #19
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Returning to the OP's question without all the willy saving of "my life jacket is bigger than yours"... If you aren't looking at a float suit* - then look at Decathlon sailing gear.

*Float suit is warm and practical and lifejacket issues aside is pretty good, but if the Mrs wants to look 'cool' she might not thank you...
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Old 20 November 2018, 15:33   #20
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Interesting debate, but I won't be looking at flotation suits, preferring the normal offshore type 'Sailor' suits. SWMBO prefers the colours available.........

The Gill OS2 combo looks OK. Further investigation needed.
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