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Old 14 November 2007, 18:18   #1
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< Edit: Split from the DON'T support the RNLI . . . thread about independent lifeboat organisations. JK >

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There are some people out their who will call themselves a lifeboat, but these are not SAR capable, and are not declared facilities to the coastguard. An example of this is the Venturers in the solent.
Simon,

you are correct, we (Venturers) are not a declared facility to HM Coastguard, the one simple reason beeing we have crews under the age of 18. however we are fully SAR trained and have good, well maintained boats and highly complex and well enforced training programs.

We do not, and never have called ourselves a lifeboat. Rescue boat yes, but never lifeboat.

Venturers are an "additional facility" and under Solas 5 we can offer out assistance to the coastguard, they can choose to accept or decline.

Alot of our work as a Search and Rescue unit is to do just that..Search....and Rescue, alot of this seasons (2007) 54 incidents we have come accross whislt of patrol.

hope this clears this up a bit

Quote:
So not all Inde stations are declared, they have to be to a set standard and if they aren't then they can't be declared!
Some units may have other reasons they cant be declared, its not that they dont necasarily meet the standards, as i said above, we cant (be declared) as we have crews under 18 - however we are fully trained in search and rescue techniques and there is nothing to say that our training is any less profesional than other 'declared' units.

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And yet they are just as capable - sometimes even more so. I read of a rescue in a boat mag where a yacht was in difficulties and the RNLI ILB was struggling - along came this dirty great Ocean Dynamics and saved the day!!!
Codprawn,

From my searches in this forum i see you have a certain "love" for Ocean Dynamics. so you should they are lovely craft and our main 9.5 meter boat at the moment is a superb boat capable of dealing with the severest weather you can throw at it.

It is as you say " A dirty great ocean dynamics" - and i love her!

I am pleased you think that we are just as capable as 'Declared facilitites' , some people dont think teenagers have it in em to do rescue work, but i think Venturers says for it self we can, over 2007 we have carried out 54 rescue ops, and assisted 114 people.

This is teenagers doing this work, crews aged between 13-18.

as for the rescue mentioned in a yacht mag, not sure which one you are refering too (and even if it was our ocean dynamics) but am interested to know more.


On the subject of RNLI/Indies, the RNLI do a fantastic job and have done for many years, i am sure they will continue to strive in excelent training and boats for many years to come,

Independent units do struggle for cash, cant just pick a new lifeboat of the shelf!

The RNLI have done fanatastic fund raising job, and have designed some fantastic boats, trained excelent crews and are (in my own opinion) the best lifeboat service in the World.

Yes they may seem to spend cash on strange things, and it can be fustrating to sit back and watch them splash out on everything when other indie units struggle for small cash.

But in short , UK has proberly the best and most impressive maritime rescue services in the World, i support and encourage funding for all of them, whether RNLI or INDIE.

i have always admired lifeboat crews, and always will, its why i joined Venturers, because i want to help make a difference, assist people when they find themselves in trouble and help people in thier most desperate hour of need, over the past 5 years Venturers has offered me fantastic training and i appreciate that, now i can make the difference i always wanted to make and will do long into the future.

Its one of the best things i ever did, i am sure any other rescue crews will tell you the same.

Some stations and services may be better of on cash, but they all exist to do the same thing, Save lives at Sea, and i dont think its 'fair' to say that any service dosn't deserve the money, I dont think money can be "better spent" its all just maybe spent in different ways, but i dont think ANY unit spends money needlessly.

If it helps save lives....then that money is needed.

Matt
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Old 15 November 2007, 08:55   #2
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Matt,
Im an offshore RNLI member, but having read this i think my money would be better spent elsewhere. As i live around Hamble, can you give me details as to how i make my donation to yourselfs? teenagers of your calibre deserve all the support they can get! As long as you dont wear hoodies!!
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Old 15 November 2007, 09:00   #3
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I have reservations on Matts post. The argument for this is because we were tasked to a casualty last year reported by Venturers. The position was just off the entrance to beaulie. When we arrived, venturers were no where to be seen, tried comms with them on Channel 16, but no reply. We headed West along Gull Island and found them with the casualty. Instructed by coastguard to take over.
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Old 15 November 2007, 09:15   #4
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I doubt that your set up is perfect. Maybe more money = better training = less errors??!!


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Old 15 November 2007, 09:22   #5
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Noted. I dont think any organisation is perfect, and errors do happen. As for training CILB train in excess of 9 Hours per week, both night and day.

If you have been involved with an error concerning CILB then I would be please to hear about it so that I can use this for training purposes.

I think the point of this thread is that peoples perception is that the RNLI is the only rescue service in the UK. This is not the case and the independents need as much of the public money as the RNLI do. Our boat costs approx 35,000 a year to run and is one of the busiest lifeboats in the Solent.
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Old 15 November 2007, 09:28   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Hawkins View Post
Noted. I dont think any organisation is perfect, and errors do happen. As for training CILB train in excess of 9 Hours per week, both night and day.

If you have been involved with an error concerning CILB then I would be please to hear about it so that I can use this for training purposes.

I think the point of this thread is that peoples perception is that the RNLI is the only rescue service in the UK. This is not the case and the independents need as much of the public money as the RNLI do. Our boat costs approx 35,000 a year to run and is one of the busiest lifeboats in the Solent.
Simon,
Im not knocking the CILB! I have never had to call on any rescue service as of yet! My point is that if we support these guys then they can also train to the same standards as others.
I also think that anything that keeps teenagers off the streets is a good thing!
I was a bit of a towrag when i was younger till i joined the Air Cadets. It did me the world of good & i went on to join the RAF.

Hope that clears things up?!
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Old 15 November 2007, 09:35   #7
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I agree the venturers is a good organistaion for teenagers to be involved with the water. However a side of Caution must be made in respect of their mental attitude when it comes to more serious casualties, such as bodies like we had to deal with last Friday morning.

We and the RNLI are under the direct control of the MCA, whereas Venturers are not. Therefore we would be the ones coming to get you if you called coastguard. If you are willing to give to them then consider the other independents in the area you do your boating.
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Old 15 November 2007, 09:37   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Hawkins View Post
I agree the venturers is a good organistaion for teenagers to be involved with the water. However a side of Caution must be made in respect of their mental attitude when it comes to more serious casualties, such as bodies like we had to deal with last Friday morning.

We and the RNLI are under the direct control of the MCA, whereas Venturers are not. Therefore we would be the ones coming to get you if you called coastguard. If you are willing to give to them then consider the other independents in the area you do your boating.
A good point, but i only have so much money!!! you sound like my kids!!
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Old 15 November 2007, 09:42   #9
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Quote:
Matt,
Im an offshore RNLI member, but having read this i think my money would be better spent elsewhere. As i live around Hamble, can you give me details as to how i make my donation to yourselfs? teenagers of your calibre deserve all the support they can get! As long as you dont wear hoodies!!
I will PM you with details, i appreciate your underswtanding of the values of our service.

Quote:
have reservations on Matts post. The argument for this is because we were tasked to a casualty last year reported by Venturers. The position was just off the entrance to beaulie. When we arrived, venturers were no where to be seen, tried comms with them on Channel 16, but no reply. We headed West along Gull Island and found them with the casualty. Instructed by coastguard to take over.
Simon,

i do not remember this last year, so sorry i can shed no light on this.

I have no objection to other "Declared" units taking over a job and understand that if one is available to do so and thus tasked by the coastguard to do so i will happily stand by.

I have every admiration for you and your unit Simon, i dont doubt your training and/or standards and i see you as a excelent service worthy of merit on many occasions. I admire you in this way and i hope you admire what our organisation sets out to do. I applaud your efforts to maintain 24/7 cover and am impressed by some of your rescues.

Quote:
I agree the venturers is a good organistaion for teenagers to be involved with the water. However a side of Caution must be made in respect of their mental attitude when it comes to more serious casualties, such as bodies like we had to deal with last Friday morning.
We will never search or recover bodies, if one is found we have strict instructions to stand by until a unit such as yourselves arrives to deal with the situation.

More serious situations would be dealt with by Crews with a minimum age of 16, we have 7 adults who are all trained on rescue at sea and thus are more suited for the more serious incidents.

Matt
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Old 15 November 2007, 13:36   #10
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Quote:
Noted. I dont think any organisation is perfect, and errors do happen. As for training CILB train in excess of 9 Hours per week, both night and day.

If you have been involved with an error concerning CILB then I would be please to hear about it so that I can use this for training purposes.
A you say simon no organisation is perfect and indeed i know of a few incident in which CILB have made mistakes,

Our Honary Executive has informed me of a few points in the past,( i am not by any means taking a stab at you, as i said before, i respect you all!)

1. a number of years ago when a search was launched for 2 teenagers, you found the vessel at the Brambles, 2 children with (as you reported) hypothermia, you took the casualties on board and took the boat in tow, requested ambulance to meet you at Lepe. all good so far.

Venturer arrived and offered to take the casualties so you could continue the tow, or take the tow so you could get the casualties back quickly, you declined, we dont know why. we informed CG and you then decided something could be arranged, you agreed to let Venturers tow the vessel, you wanted us to put in tow by coming alongside when you stiil had it in your tow, we refused saying it was quicker and easier for you (and the wellfare of the casualties - who according to our rcords,one was sat with legs out the side of the boat) to let it go and we could just pick it up again, you said it would capsize, it was a transomless boat and if it did, we could right it easily and continue, you agreed and the vessel did capsize, was righted quickly and aken in tow by us.

2.CILB then procceded to Lepe at speed were reports suggest you shot up the beach so quickly and broke both your outboards.

3.We then assisted you to get it to deeper water (reports suggest a member Cowes crewman tried to swim it out) offered to tow you back to cowes, but you refused and had the RNLI do it.

these are the points i have, and as you would like to include them in your training , i believe the points are Team Work mainly, and co-operation, no unit should be a one-man-band as so to speak.

i have the fulest of respect for your service and am happy to work and train together if you wish, as it will improve or co-operation and understanding.

Another point to the general public, i earlier posted that we do not call ourselves 'lifeboat' but didnt state why, it is because as i understand there was "a gentlemans agreement" to which it was agreed individule units would not call themselves lifeboat as RNLI didnt want to take the blame or something , we therefor call ourselves seach and rescue.

There is also a problem that if you have 'lifeboat' on your collection box as some units do, you are misleading the public to thinking they are donating to the RNLI.

As i said before my full respect to Cowes ILB, i am NOT taking a stab at you..

Regards
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