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Old 22 November 2007, 05:47   #51
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I am not being negative about them as said that I think it is a good thing for youngsters to be involved in. I personally have time for them, and that is why on an earlier post I said that I would do training with them. I am not putting CILB on a pedastool and would be the first to say that we have had our problems and embarrassments, but these are slowly being ironed out.

As I said I have personally not come across any problems with them but I have heard various reports.

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Matt my offer is still open for you to do some training with us next year.
Simon,

i will be taking you up on it when i have some suitable dates.
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Old 22 November 2007, 18:58   #52
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Old 23 November 2007, 14:42   #53
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IMHO I think its a fantasic idea that these youngsters are given the chance to get into something like this.

Whilst it is great that they get out and do this on there own IMHO they would be in a stronger position if there were a "growed up" out with them.
Not because they are not up to the job but to help with the stigma they get for just being "kids at play"
They could also then be "declared" thus then coordinated.

If this already happens then I stand corrected.

I have been involved with the VAS (Voluntary Aid Societies) for many many years, most of that time I have worked with youth sides.
I found it very rewarding and got a great deal from it.
I found over the years that the children, in many cases, are just as good at the job in hand as those over 18.
I ran a huge number of major events over the years with young adults in the Command and Control Unit, operating and coordinating many people but always with a "growed up" on hand for help and advice if neded.

Also have met Philip PS a number of times and whilst he may do great work with the children his attitude with us "growed ups" needs a bit of work and he does not rule the world......clearly I do

All IMHO of course!
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Old 23 November 2007, 14:56   #54
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IMHO I think its a fantasic idea that these youngsters are given the chance to get into something like this.

Whilst it is great that they get out and do this on there own IMHO they would be in a stronger position if there were a "growed up" out with them.
Not because they are not up to the job but to help with the stigma they get for just being "kids at play"
They could also then be "declared" thus then coordinated.

If this already happens then I stand corrected.

I have been involved with the VAS (Voluntary Aid Societies) for many many years, most of that time I have worked with youth sides.
I found it very rewarding and got a great deal from it.
I found over the years that the children, in many cases, are just as good at the job in hand as those over 18.
I ran a huge number of major events over the years with young adults in the Command and Control Unit, operating and coordinating many people but always with a "growed up" on hand for help and advice if neded.

Also have met Philip PS a number of times and whilst he may do great work with the children his attitude with us "growed ups" needs a bit of work and he does not rule the world......clearly I do

All IMHO of course!
Hi John,

Just want to try and explain a few things, so hope this helps "clear things up a bit",


To answer - grown ups on the boat, well yes and no, they can be onboard, but not in charge, i.e crew of four,

i am the coxswain, 16yrs old, in charge and make the decisions.
my crew are
1 15yr old creman
1 18 yr old medic
1 16 yr old second cox

Several of the Coxswains that i "manage and co-ordinate" are older than me, 2 of them are 21 years old, but they listen to me and respect my decisions,

My point is we very often do have older crew onboard, many over 17 at least, but they are not in charge of the situation

Does this make sense??

Matt
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Old 23 November 2007, 15:08   #55
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Hi Matt,

Yes it does but my point is that if you made it routine you "could" then be delcared and therefore used more. You stated that you could not be as no adults on board.
Whilst that adult "may" not be in charge they are there to ensure that someone is of legal age to take charge.
I am not saying that it is right but it is the way it has to be on law and then would surly make you guys a better resource.

I am a the duty cox for a declared/additional boat.
We are mainly a patrol vessel but can and are used in a SAR role.
We get tasks to jobs by our local coast guard and worl along side our local RNLI stations.

We do not and would never seek to upstage or replace them but it makes sense for us to be tasked to job as we can have a much quicker response as we are already on the water.
I have, on a number of job, after looking at what we have been asked to do, asked for the RNLI boat to be lauched.
I would much rather stand it down than have to wait longer for back up.
The same is true of the SAR helicopters.

As the wise old sage DM said it is the guy on the ground who should call the shots not thoses in the control room as they do not always have all the facts to hand.

Our boat and PWC have channel 0 programmed in and we log on and off with the coast guard at the begining and end of each shift.
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Old 23 November 2007, 15:18   #56
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Hi Matt,

Yes it does but my point is that if you made it routine you "could" then be delcared and therefore used more. You stated that you could not be as no adults on board.
Whilst that adult "may" not be in charge they are there to ensure that someone is of legal age to take charge.
I am not saying that it is right but it is the way it has to be on law and then would surly make you guys a better resource.

I am a the duty cox for a declared/additional boat.
We are mainly a patrol vessel but can and are used in a SAR role.
We get tasks to jobs by our local coast guard and worl along side our local RNLI stations.

We do not and would never seek to upstage or replace them but it makes sense for us to be tasked to job as we can have a much quicker response as we are already on the water.
I have, on a number of job, after looking at what we have been asked to do, asked for the RNLI boat to be lauched.
I would much rather stand it down than have to wait longer for back up.
The same is true of the SAR helicopters.

As the wise old sage DM said it is the guy on the ground who should call the shots not thoses in the control room as they do not always have all the facts to hand.

Our boat and PWC have channel 0 programmed in and we log on and off with the coast guard at the begining and end of each shift.
John,

Whislt being declared would have its advatages it was my understanding the whole crew needed to be a declared?

If we were declared we would also be aloocated a patrol zone, and have to keep to it, be on call 24/7 and able to respond (i beleive)

Decisions are always made by the coxswain (on scene) and not by our control room as you said , whoever is on scene has the facts.

Regards

Matt
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Old 23 November 2007, 15:33   #57
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Originally Posted by Matt-V-SAR View Post
John,

Whislt being declared would have its advatages it was my understanding the whole crew needed to be a declared?

If we were declared we would also be aloocated a patrol zone, and have to keep to it, be on call 24/7 and able to respond (i beleive)

Decisions are always made by the coxswain (on scene) and not by our control room as you said , whoever is on scene has the facts.

Regards

Matt
Well glad to say all pretty much wrong.
It would seem someone there need to sit and have a chat with the coast guard to see what you can do and need to do.
IMHO you seem to be acting on a fair bit of hear say and not fact.

We are only available for SAR tasking when we are launched on patrol.
We do not responded like the RNLI.
We are not on call 24/7.
We are not a lifeboat like CILB but our crews are very highly trained.

The organisation is delcared not you as Matt of VSAR.

You "declare" to HMGC what you can and can't do, what your crews can do.
You would need an adult on board otherwise you could not be delcared and you may in some case let them take charge, by law.

Whilst this may go against what the Ventures are all about IMHO if you want to get involved with this kind of work, can see from you posts you do, then you may have to bite the bullet in some areas.

I would agree with Havener if you can not become delared that maybe you should consider dropping the SAR as on the water you are not a SAR resource and may give the wrong impression.
You on land role is another case.

Having said that I would stand up and say that the work that you are doing with the youngsters is great but maybe you need to have look inside at what you are trying to portray.

IMHO a lot of the flack you are and maybe getting is because you, (you as in Ventures not you as in Matt) are giving the impression that you are some alternative lifeboat when in all honesty you are not.

Cheers
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Old 23 November 2007, 15:54   #58
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Well glad to say all pretty much wrong.
It would seem someone there need to sit and have a chat with the coast guard to see what you can do and need to do.
IMHO you seem to be acting on a fair bit of hear say and not fact.

We are only available for SAR tasking when we are launched on patrol.
We do not responded like the RNLI.
We are not on call 24/7.
We are not a lifeboat like CILB but our crews are very highly trained.

The organisation is delcared not you as Matt of VSAR.

You "declare" to HMGC what you can and can't do, what your crews can do.
You would need an adult on board otherwise you could not be delcared and you may in some case let them take charge, by law.

Whilst this may go against what the Ventures are all about IMHO if you want to get involved with this kind of work, can see from you posts you do, then you may have to bite the bullet in some areas.

I would agree with Havener if you can not become delared that maybe you should consider dropping the SAR as on the water you are not a SAR resource and may give the wrong impression.
You on land role is another case.

Having said that I would stand up and say that the work that you are doing with the youngsters is great but maybe you need to have look inside at what you are trying to portray.

IMHO a lot of the flack you are and maybe getting is because you, (you as in Ventures not you as in Matt) are giving the impression that you are some alternative lifeboat when in all honesty you are not.

Cheers
Not sure how you mean alternative lifeboat??,

i respect your opinions however it isnt as simple as drop the SAR name, we are an "additional facility" to the coastguard, if we can assit and the Coastguard see us capable of doing so (they have full information of quality of equipment and training) then they will use us as that "additional facility", we can therefor assist in searches etc under this "additional facility" status.

As you rightly point out, us on land is an completely different as we are a recognised search and rescue assist to the police.

Venturers have held the name 'The league of Venturers Search and Rescue' since being formed in 1961, it is proberly not something that would be easy to change with the snap of the fingures

I understand why people believe we should not act as SAR as we are not declared.

as i said before, i respect and appreciate your opinions.

Matt
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Old 23 November 2007, 16:19   #59
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Matt you have a great future in politics if nothing else.
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Old 23 November 2007, 16:40   #60
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Matt you have a great future in politics if nothing else.

is that a good thing or a bad thing?? lol

think i may stick to what my parents tell me, "your young and insignificant..shutup"..
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