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Old 04 December 2007, 10:10   #101
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Tiffy

In an emergency sitution ie mayday channel 16 will be the working channel, for comms with casualty vessel working. They will then communicate with resources on channel 0. By the way Cowes Harbour Commission now have Zero so that we can communicate with them outside of their normal operating CH69. If they can get it then perhaps it may be worthwhile you trying to obtain a licence to use it.
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Old 04 December 2007, 10:10   #102
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Originally Posted by Simon Hawkins View Post
Tiffy. I am not going to get into a tit for tat battle with you on this subject, but for your information we have 4 Advanced Powerboat Instructors, A Boatmaster, A Master of Trinity House Vessell Alert, and a watch officer from P & O, who holds his MCA fast rescue craft certificate. With regards to kit to use we have a good relationship with IYWAC and Hampshire Police marine section, so can use there equipment, plus have various other types of larger vessels we can get out hands on.

As I have said previously I think that you do a good job in educating minors, and keeping them off the streets, and your crews are dedicated. If problems are being illustrated to you on this forum then it may be an area that needs addressing within your organisation. Cowes Inshore Lifeboat has had its problems in the past, but these have nearly all been sorted, via training, and discussions with those people who are responsible for the errors to establish where it went wrong and what could be done in the future to prevent.

With regards to your piece about using the word "lifeboat" Under the SSRO (solent sea rescue organisation) we are allowed to use this word as are other independents in the Solent area, such as Freshwater, Hamble, Sandown.
I suggest you contact the RNLI about the use of the word
Lifeboat in your title . As I met the RNLI Chief and they are not keen on
Independent Units using the word Lifeboats , as this is connected in
the public mind with RNLI . Used on collections boxes it can confuse
the donors. It can also discredit the RNLI if a Units makes muck up of
a Rescue. It may boost your ego for people to think your a a RNLI
Lifeboat ; but we in the Venturers are quite happy with Venturers Search
and Rescue which honestly describes who we are and who the public
put money in our collections boxes. Cannot see what authority the
SSRO Have to use Lifeboat ,and indeed if they contacted the RNLI . They
would find the RNLI were under the impression there was a gentleman's
agreement that voluntary rescue units would not use LifeBoat.
Hope this thread is now finished , and when lives are in danger we will
work together as we have sometimes done in the past.
agreement
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Old 04 December 2007, 10:30   #103
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Tiffy

Interesting. I had a SAR operations meeting a few weeks ago which combined independents and RNLI, and this topic was not discussed. Your theory is nonsense. Does this mean every survival boat on ships should not be called lifeboats.

As i explained to Matt there will be occassions where you pick up a casualty vessel, and we are tasked to relieve you of this if deemed necessary by coastguard and I cannot see any reason why any discussions on here would interfere. I would like to think though that if your crews hindered a job then I could report this to you so that it could be addressed internally. As I have said previously I have not experienced any problems with Venturers, but others on the crew have, and also what the general boating population have said. Likewise anything you see with our boat you contact me about it.
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Old 04 December 2007, 10:55   #104
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Am I the only one who thinks all this inter-organisation bickering is quite alarming? There is clear animosity showing through on both sides and speaking as a leisure boater myself (read someone who may one day find myself in grateful need of either organisation's services) I have to say I'd be much more reassured if there was a bit more cordiality between rescue organisations.

God help anyone falling overboard in the Solent... you'll have the RNLI yanking on one arm and the Venturers pulling on the other!

Surely two organisations with so much training, teamwork skills and equipment can work together towards a common end?

That said, I think Matt has come across as a mature and well-grounded individual in the face of some fairly snide provocation from one or two know-alls on here so well done to him for that!

Alex
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Old 04 December 2007, 11:07   #105
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....That said, I think Matt has come across as a mature and well-grounded individual in the face of some fairly snide provocation from one or two know-alls on here so well done to him for that!

Alex
I'll second that! I have no beef with either side of this "discussion" but if Matt shows the same maturity (and sense of humour) at Sea as he does on here then the boy's got my vote.....here, have a Gold Star in Diplomacy.
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Old 04 December 2007, 11:08   #106
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God help anyone falling overboard in the Solent... you'll have the RNLI yanking on one arm and the Venturers pulling on the other!

Surely two organisations with so much training, teamwork skills and equipment can work together towards a common end?

That said, I think Matt has come across as a mature and well-grounded individual in the face of some fairly snide provocation from one or two know-alls on here so well done to him for that!

Alex
Alex.

This is the point, ventures are not a declared assett and therefore would not be tasked by coastguard in the way declared facilities would be. This is no fault of their own but due to the age of their crew.

Secondly we are not RNLI. We however do work with both Yarmouth and Calshot.

I agree matt does appear to have his head screwed on.
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Old 05 December 2007, 04:00   #107
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Alex.

This is the point, ventures are not a declared assett and therefore would not be tasked by coastguard in the way declared facilities would be. This is no fault of their own but due to the age of their crew.
I think you'll find it's more to do with attitude and unwillingness to accept anyone else's protocols, as in the decision to abandon the RYA training.

Quote:
I agree matt does appear to have his head screwed on.
Yep. Shame the other one keeps discrediting his organisation by his silly comments.

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We have
3 qualified IYT Instuctors . including Rescue Coxswain , Intermediate
and Advanced Power Boating. How many of this grade do you have ?
All the gear, no idea....how many of your qualified trainers have years of maritime experience behind them? Matt for examople is highly qualified, and seemingly a bright lad, but none of that can compensate for sea time and incident experience.

By the way, "Lifeboat" is not a protected name (in the way that "paramedic" or "doctor" is), so to question whether other people should use it is pretty pathetic. As for "discrediting" the RNLI, are you serious? Every rescue boat crew makes mistakes sometimes, as do all of us at sea. (Sitting on the bridge of a tanker typing this reminds me that my mistakes might have slightly worse consequences perhaps!).

Quote:
cordiality between rescue organisations
That's the whole point. Venturers are NOT a rescue organisation, they are a youth organisation that sometimes turn up at maritime incidents. As a leisure boater, you have no assurance of their skills, knowledge and working practices, just as the Coastguard dont. This is why the UK (and most other countries) has a "declaring" system to ensure that properly recognised, equipped, trained and managed assistance is sent to casualty vessels. Sadly, one person has been figting a "chip on shoulder" battle to be recognised for years, their very acts of consistlently attacking publicly the skills of other services demonstrates perfectly why they should never be part of the UK SAR structure.
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Old 05 December 2007, 06:32   #108
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Just so you know who I am and some of you already do I am founder of the website Independent Lifeboats UK, ex All weather Independent Lifeboat crew/ radio operator, rescue swimmer and all round crew

Some additional services can have channel zero, when Blyth Volunteer Lifeboat Service's All Weather Lifeboat was an additional service we had channel zero, I know I was one of the main radio operators. Other additional service also have channel zero and as mentioned some Lifeguard units but HM coastguard must okay this before channel zero is put on your VHF's.

Venturers do you not monitor channel 16 as well as the channel you use ie 67? maybe something to look into to improved your service and remain in communication with other services also repsonding or working around you as well as other vessels..

Hence why most lifeboats have more than on radio, I have seen me monitor 4 channels at once and talk on them, take some doing though sometimes especially in a big search with many lifeboats and units involved.

Channel 67 is a working channel for HM coastguard, used for normal vessels and for lifeboat if channel zero is already being used.

As for you did this we did that, every service makes mistakes, even RNLI crews who have served for decades, this includeds Independent Lifeboat Services and I'm sure Venturers. Like said no one is perfect.

What I do disagree with is tit for tat... Hold your hands up say 'Yes' we made a mistake and learn from it, this will make you a better service in the long run, as long as you make small mistakes that doesnt endanger life and learn from them and attempt not to repeat them then bravo job done.

As for RYA qualifications, yes it is nice to have, but dont make you a good crew member, we at BVLS had training that was competenced based as well as recognised qualifications. Experience is often better than qualifications, but the coastguard do like you to have these..some which you can not serve without are the likes of VHF..

As for a vessel being called a lifeboat or rescue boat heres one of the reason why..

Its due to radio and confusion. If there is an RNLI lifeboat situated in the local area they are always known as Lifeboat, example Blyth Lifeboat being an Inshore D -Class, our lifeboat could not go under the name Blyth volunteer Lifeboat as this would of caused confusion as sometimes radio is unclear, so we became Blyth Rescue as a call sign, even though we were Blyth Volunteer Lifeboat Service in reality and in name off the radio. Hence why most Independent Lifeboats are known as rescue, not lifeboat, there are a few exceptions to this example Caister Lifeboat.

Hope this clears a few things up.
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Old 05 December 2007, 08:28   #109
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Quote:
Venturers do you not monitor channel 16 as well as the channel you use ie 67?
Hi Steve,

Yes we do, its on dual watch with channel 67, however when we begin working with a casualty we stay on 67, CG know we are on this channel,

we have two radios on the boat. One is our own private PMR frequency for our own boats and control, and the other monitors, as said, Channel 67 with DW CH16.

Matt
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Old 05 December 2007, 09:33   #110
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Good Stuff :-)
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