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Old 17 June 2005, 07:52   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boatster
The urethane seems to win in the manufacture, weight, and strength dept according to that article. Very compelling argument, but with such a good reputation for hypalon only time or a good weathering test can determine how Urethane materials hold up.
Well they're are some companies out there that do use PU (polyurethane) for tube manufacture, mainly Tornado and XS-Ribs so a good weathering test would be to simply find an old Tornado and compare it to a similarly ageed hypalon RIB. You'll find that the PU tubes won't have faded as much and have kept their lustre. One thing I always notice about old Tornados is that I always get their age wrong because the tubes always look 4/5yrs newer.

Has been discussed many a time here before, see here:
http://www.rib.net/forum/search.php?...0&pp=25&page=2

Be aware that in a lot of these threads PU (polyurethane) has been confused with PVC (Poly Vinyl Chloride). PVC is actually more closely related to Polyethylene, and therefore Hypalon than PU.

The only similarity is that both fabrics can be heat welded. PVC is an unstable polymer because of the chemical make up of the fabrics coating.
This means that the PVC fabric is constantly changing, oxidizing and migrating to the surface. PVC's are liquefied with solvents where polyurethane is liquefied by heat, leading to a significantly more stable fabric coating. Stories about tubes rotting in the sun are about PVC - not polyurethane.

http://www.wing.com/polyurethane.html
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Old 19 June 2005, 01:55   #12
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Here is a link to a previous thread on this topic;

PU or Hyperlon Tubes which to go for?


In that thread Paul Tilley (who is one the foremost rib retubers anywhere) had this to say about the different tube fabrics:

"Hypalon is considered to be the best fabric for tubes due to its good all round properties ,it can give a very long life ,the oldest tube i have seen was 26yrs old and used regularly before needing retubing ihave never seen a PU or PVC tube last any where near that long , some pvc and pu tubes have been known to last less than 18 months .PVC and PU are both harder to glue than hypalon thus making them less user friendly when you need to do that little get you home repair .IT is also afact that in the uk especially most RIB builders are only relatively small and it would not be cost effective to buy the sort of equipment Tornado have to make their very nice looking welded PU tubes as most glued PU tubes seem to fall apart when the glue seems to crystalize . In my humble opinion the only thing PU has going for it is its better abrasion resistance but this is outweighed by the user friendlyness of hypalon . The UK MOD tried PU tubes but seem to be sticking to hypalon."



When it comes to tubing materials, Paul Tilley is as knowledgeable as they come.
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Old 21 June 2005, 18:08   #13
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The US Navy appears to disagree with Mr. Tilley:

http://www.wing.com/PUvHYPE%204.13.05.pdf


jky
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Old 21 June 2005, 22:52   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jyasaki
The US Navy appears to disagree with Mr. Tilley:

http://www.wing.com/PUvHYPE%204.13.05.pdf


jky
There is a parallel discussion about tubing fabrics and that document in the "DUX inflatable boats" thread (also currently on page 1 of this forum's listings). It's worth having a look at.
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Old 22 June 2005, 09:11   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jyasaki
The US Navy appears to disagree with Mr. Tilley:

http://www.wing.com/PUvHYPE%204.13.05.pdf


jky

Yah what do they know??? Just ask Avon inflatables - probably the pioneer of the RIB - they have been building them for years - they still use hypalon whilst their now sister company Zodiac use the other stuff - Avon STILL refuse to use the stuff!!!
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Old 22 June 2005, 11:19   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by codprawn
Yah what do they know??? Just ask Avon inflatables - probably the pioneer of the RIB - they have been building them for years - they still use hypalon whilst their now sister company Zodiac use the other stuff - Avon STILL refuse to use the stuff!!!
Wrong again!!

I assume by "other stuff" you mean PU as you referred to the Mil report on PU.

Zodiac actually don't use PU, they use what they call "Strongan Duotex" which is just a fancy name for an evolved, improved PVC and as I said before PVC is actually more closely related to Polyethylene, and therefore Hypalon than PU.

This is one of those 2 vs 4 stroke debates that really doesn't have any right answer. But at least people know the difference between the two. Try not to confuse PVC and all of its fancy derivatives (Strongan Duotex, Akron, etc.)with PU (polyurethane) and Hypalon.

IMHO the reason for all the fancy names is that manufacturers want to disguise the fact that their boats use PVC which is much inferior to both Hypalon and PU.
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Old 22 June 2005, 11:26   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swginn
Wrong again!!

I assume by "other stuff" you mean PU as you referred to the Mil report on PU.

Zodiac actually don't use PU, they use what they call "Strongan Duotex" which is just a fancy name for an evolved, improved PVC and as I said before PVC is actually more closely related to Polyethylene, and therefore Hypalon than PU.

This is one of those 2 vs 4 stroke debates that really doesn't have any right answer. But at least people know the difference between the two. Try not to confuse PVC and all of its fancy derivatives (Strongan Duotex, Akron, etc.)with PU (polyurethane) and Hypalon.

IMHO the reason for all the fancy names is that manufacturers want to disguise the fact that their boats use PVC which is much inferior to both Hypalon and PU.

Actually I meant PVC - haven't read the report for a long time!!! Yes I DO know the difference!!!
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Old 22 June 2005, 11:44   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swginn
Wrong again!!

I assume by "other stuff" you mean PU as you referred to the Mil report on PU.

Zodiac actually don't use PU, they use what they call "Strongan Duotex" which is just a fancy name for an evolved, improved PVC and as I said before PVC is actually more closely related to Polyethylene, and therefore Hypalon than PU.

This is one of those 2 vs 4 stroke debates that really doesn't have any right answer. But at least people know the difference between the two. Try not to confuse PVC and all of its fancy derivatives (Strongan Duotex, Akron, etc.)with PU (polyurethane) and Hypalon.

IMHO the reason for all the fancy names is that manufacturers want to disguise the fact that their boats use PVC which is much inferior to both Hypalon and PU.
Agreed.
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