Tubes and materials

alexg · 26 August 2014, 17:14

Didn't want to hijack anyones thread I am looking to re-tube my Tornado soon, and have been getting a few quotes with some really Positive outcomes, from members and from tornado themselves now I need to know the general opinion ... HYPALON with the retubers or PU from Tornado ??
Any opinions are well received no matter how crass they may be

kerny · 26 August 2014, 17:18

Hypalon all the way. [emoji106]

Boatnomad · 26 August 2014, 18:17

Hypalon,every time

SixtyNorth · 26 August 2014, 18:29

I'd say a heavy, commercial grade Hypalon but, what is the benefit of PU? There must be a reason Tornado are using it. Anyone know?

Poly · 26 August 2014, 18:46

Hypalon certainly has the brand reputation and is generally regarded as easier to repair.

Polyurethane (PU) and PVC are often mixed up, accordingly PU has a worse reputation than perhaps it deserves. There are advantages for high volume production (thermo-welding) - although I think Tornado still glue tubes together. PU manufacturers claim it is actually more robust (to abrasion?) than hypalon although I suspect it depends how you measure it.

Most people who say Hypalon is better than PU have of course never owned PU tubes, and certainly not like for like equivalents! I find Bigmuz7's experience interesting: I am paraphrasing a little but having owned "budget" rib makers hypalon tubes (several boats) which regularly needed topped up, he moved to mass produced PU tubes from Valiant and raved about the fact he didn't need to touch them for years at a time, and they still looked good!

How do the costs compare? Because of their perceived value/reputation if the hypalon costs the same its probably the way to go for resale?

Barnetmarine do PU tubes (prices on their website) for comparison.

SixtyNorth · 26 August 2014, 19:38

Cheers. Any major differences with repair?

alexg · 26 August 2014, 19:43

I am told Tornado weld the PU on their tubes, I am led to believe this is a better way of production! I have been really happy with the PU tubes on the tornado until recently (they are 10 years old) and have never owned a Hypalon boat although have a lot to do with them and they have allways been really hardy!! The price difference is negligable and both workshops are 200 miles away so it's a hard one for me to decide!

Poly · 26 August 2014, 20:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by SixtyNorth

Cheers. Any major differences with repair?

Hypalon is supposed to be easier to repair than PU. That said, considering all Tornado's, XS and Valiant (I think all?) are PU I don't recall many threads with people having problems patching?

jyasaki · 27 August 2014, 15:26

Found this:

http://www.ribstore.co.uk/cms-assets...nflatable-boat

which seems to imply that the procedure, at least, is the same for hypalon and PU.

jky

alexg · 27 August 2014, 21:14

So a pretty unanimous verdict ... Hypalon all the way??

jyasaki · 28 August 2014, 00:14

Dunno. I didn't see a whole lot against PU in the above posts, but you can read it however you want to.

jky

Bigtalljv · 28 August 2014, 02:55

I'd venture to guess that most of the negatives with PU is it being mixed up with PVC.

PU seems to be the primary fabric in the states. I'm pretty sure some of that is due to work place laws and the nasty solvents that are required for gluing. It seemed reasonable when I was told that when I bought my first RIB 15 years ago and went looking specifically for hypalon. The two PU tube manufacturers in the states I am familiar with and have talked to heat weld them.

Jason

GRAHAM SOMERS · 28 August 2014, 15:18

Make sure that the Company quoting for the re-tube are reputable. Also check the grade/weight/make of the fabric they are using. What warranty are they passing to you on the tube and the seams ? There is certainly nothing wrong with Polyurethane fabric ! The majority of the quotes that you will get will be in Hypalon as they would not have the machinery to thermo-weld the seams. Valiant offered a written 10 year PU Fabric AND seam warranty on their RIBs.

alexg · 28 August 2014, 15:39

All the advice is really appreciated, thanks its such a hard choice. at the end of the day all there is in it is the material type I'm pretty much sure I'm leaning towards the factory job at the moment, either way I've got to get the trailer ready for A 600 mile trip :-s

jyasaki · 28 August 2014, 15:45

Jason; not sure you can really say that PU is the standard fabric in the US. PVC and Hypalon boats still outnumber PU boats by a longshot.

As far as tube makers, possibly you're right, as Wing is the only tube manufacturer I am aware of in the US (commercially, at least; I'd guess there are guys that do one-off jobs in hypalon around somewhere.) You apparently know of one other manufacturer. I don't. Still a sample of 2 is pretty small to make that kind of a generalization regarding a worldwide market.

I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with welding; I'd hazard a guess that most mass produced PVC boats are welded (at least the tubes are.) The big advantage to welding is that it can be automated - machines are probably faster and don't get paid as much as a skilled tube manufacturing tech gluing up hypalon, which helps bring production costs down. The tubes they end up with seem to last as long as hand-glued tubes, so I would have to say they'd be adequate, especially for recreational use.

The only real question mark I had was longevity, and that is proving itself as time goes by. PU seems to last as well as hypalon, as far as I can tell.

Bottom line: I wouldn't shy away from a PU tubed boat simply because of the fabric or manufacturing method.

jky

Bigtalljv · 28 August 2014, 17:55

I was speaking about domestic USA production. I had 7m boats on the brain when I was thinking about this and the two I have talked to use PU. Not sure if that is the standard on the Willards these days. Are there any other domestically produced RIBS?

I know the rafting world uses hypalon but I know very little about them and where their products are produced. I just get my supplies from them.

jason

ncp · 28 August 2014, 18:54

Once I found the right glue for my PU tubes, I'm actually really liking them. Do they weather as good as Hypalon...nah, the color fades a bit (look at a 20 year old Avon with a little elbow grease and 303 compared to a set of unpainted Wing's). But, Wing uses some thick/tough material!

Jon Tallis · 29 August 2014, 01:01

If the costs / logistics etc are comparable it's a no-brainer - Hypalon every time.
Whatever the technical facts might be, hypalon is widely regarded as a 'superior' material to PU/PVC and this will be reflected in the resale value of the boat.

jyasaki · 29 August 2014, 04:41

Jon; That's where we differ. I don't think PU has been around long enough to make that kind of blanket statement based on anything other than "hey, it's worked for this long, and we've always done it this way; it must be the best."

Time will tell.

jky

Jon Tallis · 29 August 2014, 07:13

No, it hasn't but the general buyer sees hypalon as a superior material and that makes it more desirable and therefore valuable. Whether it actually is any better is irrelevant - opinion trumps fact everytime - that's why companies have marketing departments.