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Old 02 September 2008, 10:20   #31
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IMHO a sub 5m hard boat would have sank or have being so swamped it would not have been possible to get the draft back in order to re-start the engine and shift the water. I had to reach into about 14 inches of sea water to release the drain plug.
As stated in my earlier post it was a 7 year old rib at the time of failure and it was the hypalon tearing rather than the joint failing. That however led to the joint failing when returning to base with the waves then putting pressure on the seam/joint. No boat is indestructible, especially a sub 5m one with 7 years of use, a heavy handed idiot at the helm and a heavy sea.
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Old 02 September 2008, 10:47   #32
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Avon - nearly!

Suffered a tear in the attachment strip on the bow of my 5.4m Searider the first time I used it.

Was a 50mm tear from stuffing into the back of one wave.

Spotted it when the boat went back on its trailer later that day so there was no repetitive impacts to elongate the tear or cause further damage.

Easily fixed with a patch and no further issues in 4 more years of ownership.

1978 boat and the incident was in about 1998 - so a 20 year old boat.

Could happen to anyone!
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Old 02 September 2008, 14:02   #33
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As a Ribcraft owner this may be construed as being a touch defensive but I have little or no experience of these very rough conditions ( nor do I want to test my tubes in them!) but the following was included on the YBW newsletter today. May help to explain the mystery.


Lifeboat rescues lifeboat
Portishead independent lifeboat had to be rescued yesterday after colliding with a submerged object while on exercise in heavy seas. The 22ft RIB 'Denbar Sage', carrying two crewmen and a trainee, sustained structural damage, and the crew members issued a Mayday.

Swansea Coastguard despatched two RNLI lifeboats from Weston-super-mare, the Independent Lifeboat from SARA, and a SAR Helicopter from RAF Chivenor to assist, and 'Denbar Sage' was towed back to its base. A Portishead lifeboat spokesman said, "We do not know what the boat hit, but we think it may have been a large tree."
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Old 02 September 2008, 14:12   #34
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to rip the tubes off by hitting a submerged tree seems a bit tricky to me.
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Old 02 September 2008, 17:29   #35
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to rip the tubes off by hitting a submerged tree seems a bit tricky to me.
Dont agree.. on the contrary.. due to the density of the soaked wood, most of it is submerged. On my way to Campbelltown a couple of years ago in September, I came across an entire trunk after some storms, with all its branches under the water and only a few showing above, presumably due to other impacts,.. waves were about 2.0m so.. given the right speed at the wrong time ... a strike would have been a bad experience. Happened that visibility was good and we could see it coming, but I've been in plenty where it could have appeared at a moments notice !
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Old 02 September 2008, 18:18   #36
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Dont agree.. on the contrary.. due to the density of the soaked wood, most of it is submerged. On my way to Campbelltown a couple of years ago in September, I came across an entire trunk after some storms, with all its branches under the water and only a few showing above, presumably due to other impacts,.. waves were about 2.0m so.. given the right speed at the wrong time ... a strike would have been a bad experience. Happened that visibility was good and we could see it coming, but I've been in plenty where it could have appeared at a moments notice !
I quite believe that a tree trunk can be mostly submerged, would be difficult to see even in reasonable conditions and virtually impossible in bad weather. And I have no doubt that hitting one would be a very unpleasant experience, probably resulting in substantial damage.

I could see a big trunk putting a whole in the hull. I could see a sharp branch sticking out of a large submerged tree tearing the tube. But the video shows an intact tube detached from an intact (or certainly not substantially damaged) bow.

If the trunk was submerged how does the tube get to it unless by some massive coincidence the trunk is in the centre of a wave AND the boat stuffs the wave at exactly that point. Even then to pull the tube off the hull rather than burst the bow section?
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Old 02 September 2008, 18:39   #37
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If the trunk was submerged how does the tube get to it unless by some massive coincidence the trunk is in the centre of a wave AND the boat stuffs the wave at exactly that point.
Thats a possible scenario, it all looks similar when regular waves hit you, time after time after time.. Not saying it was the case here, but its perfectly plausible ,as its what I have seen myself.

If I had a finger and thumb for every event I'd never think I would ever see at sea....I never ceased to be amazed
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Old 02 September 2008, 19:42   #38
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Just occurred to me .. We have a loft supported by an old log split in four, lifted from the North Minch coast line 55 or so years ago. About 8 years ago whilst at sea , I observed some gulls that looked like they were standing on the water, when I got closer, they were resting on one of the very same logs (as it appeared) in the same area, so, to prevent myself and others hitting this timber I dragged its huge weight to shore and beached it,and as yet I have not moved it from where I left it. Its 14 feet long by about 15 inches in diameter, and absolutley none of it, was visible in the water. Once on dry land ,.. only my tractor could move it up the beach to where it sits now to this day
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Old 03 September 2008, 04:16   #39
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but that was my point - a submerged log is much more likely to do hull or leg damage than rip the tubes off when the tubes are normally sitting out the water. even if you did stuff a log - the forces don't seem to me like they would be mainly upwards as necessary to cleanly rip off the tubes. Press said y'day that MAIB were investigating so maybe we will find out.
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Old 03 September 2008, 06:48   #40
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I've seen examples of Bigmuz's logs and I wouldn't want to meet one in a wave but I agree with Polwart that this is unlikely to be the cause of the damage. You are both right so stop bickering.....

If you look carefully at the video, it's pretty obvious that the front of the tube folded back and tore the cross piece at the bow over the rather sharp corner of the flange. After that the glue simply came apart. As I said before, bad gluing. A good glue joint will not separate at the glue line, the glue amalgamates into one. It's clear to see that there have been a few good patches where adhesion appears to be ok but mostly the glued area has just separated. It's interesting to note that there are multiple layers of joint reinforcing but even these have not stayed together.
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