Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
 
Old 18 October 2006, 06:58   #11
Member
 
Country: UK - Wales
Town: swansea
Boat name: Too Blue
Make: BLANK
Length: 8m +
Engine: Suzuki DT225
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 12,791
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Kennett View Post
I'd be interested to know how they manage that legally!

John

Probably the same as everyone else = why should it be illegal?

Apparently though it IS illegal for a petrol station to dispense more than 10L at once into a can - so you would have to 1/2 fill it - go in and pay - then come back out and put in the other 10L - BARKING!!!
__________________

__________________
codprawn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18 October 2006, 07:13   #12
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Over here
Boat name: S.S. Nobstick
Make: Three Wise Monkeys
Length: 3m +
Engine: 44lbs of thrust....
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,115
Reading this is interesting... the power of Google and an idle mind...

http://www.hse-databases.co.uk/lau/lacs/65-9.htm
__________________

__________________
Jono is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18 October 2006, 08:16   #13
Administrator
 
John Kennett's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Brighton
Length: 3m +
Join Date: May 2000
Posts: 6,829
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jono View Post
Reading this is interesting... the power of Google and an idle mind...

http://www.hse-databases.co.uk/lau/lacs/65-9.htm
At a glance it looks like that has been superceded in the workplace by Dangerous Substances and Explosive Atmospheres Regulations 2002 http://www.hse.gov.uk/fireandexplosi...background.htm

There's also The Carriage of Dangerous Goods by Road Regulations 1996 http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1996/Uksi_19962095_en_1.htm

Then you need to find a filling station that can fill your truck load of 25 litre jerry cans without breaching the terms of its licence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by codprawn View Post
Probably the same as everyone else = why should it be illegal?
Because as far as I can tell "everyone else" just fills up a load of jerrycans (possibly in breach of the filling stations licence, but not an offence in itself) and loads them into the back of a Land Rover, almost certainly not in compliance with CDGR.

There may be some RIB (or other boat) operators using appropriate, properly marked vehicles with qualified drivers to move their petrol, but I don't know of any . . .
Quote:
Apparently though it IS illegal for a petrol station to dispense more than 10L at once into a can - so you would have to 1/2 fill it - go in and pay - then come back out and put in the other 10L - BARKING!!!
Don't confuse the HSE storage regulations with the local authority licencing conditions . . .

John
__________________
John Kennett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18 October 2006, 08:35   #14
CJL
Member
 
CJL's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: London
Make: Ribcrafts
Length: 5m +
Engine: 150hp/2x115hp
MMSI: 235090215
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,115
RIBase
Send a message via Skype™ to CJL
Becareful carrying lots of fuel in jerry cans. As JK points out the Carridge of Dangerous Goods or ADR regulates (you know those orange plate on trucks??)carrying more than I think 70litres of petrol (not including the vehicles tank). Beside breaking the law, its kinda dangerous and expensive!

The police are getting hot on this kind of stuff now cause it ties in to terrorism and stop checks can be done by VOSA (Vehicle Operator Services Agency) without a police constable doing the stopping now!

Chris
__________________
www.northernexposurerescue.org.uk
A registered charity supporting events across England and Wales
Follow us on Vimeo and Facebook
CJL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18 October 2006, 09:11   #15
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Over here
Boat name: S.S. Nobstick
Make: Three Wise Monkeys
Length: 3m +
Engine: 44lbs of thrust....
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,115
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Kennett View Post
At a glance it looks like that has been superceded in the workplace by Dangerous Substances and Explosive Atmospheres Regulations 2002 http://www.hse.gov.uk/fireandexplosi...background.htm
Doesn't apply to "private peeps"...

there is work being carried out by an employer (or self employed person);


Quote:
Originally Posted by John Kennett View Post
There's also The Carriage of Dangerous Goods by Road Regulations 1996 http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1996/Uksi_19962095_en_1.htm

Doesn't apply to "private peeps"...

3. These Regulations shall not apply to or in relation to the carriage of dangerous goods in—
(a) a vehicle which is not being used for, or in connection with, work;


Quote:
Originally Posted by John Kennett View Post
... almost certainly not in compliance with CDGR.


....again....


Quote:
Originally Posted by John Kennett View Post
There may be some RIB (or other boat) operators using appropriate, properly marked vehicles with qualified drivers to move their petrol, but I don't know of any . . .Don't confuse the HSE storage regulations with the local authority licencing conditions . . .

John
So, in conclusion...? Operators and Schools need to get their acts together.. the rest of us can carry on driving around in potential fire bombs... Yeeha!
__________________
Jono is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18 October 2006, 13:34   #16
RIBnet admin team
 
Poly's Avatar
 
Country: UK - Scotland
Boat name: imposter
Make: FunYak
Length: 3m +
Engine: 2 stroke YAM 20 HP
MMSI: 235089819
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 10,114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jono View Post
Doesn't apply to "private peeps"...

there is work being carried out by an employer (or self employed person);





Doesn't apply to "private peeps"...

3. These Regulations shall not apply to or in relation to the carriage of dangerous goods inó
(a) a vehicle which is not being used for, or in connection with, work;





....again....




So, in conclusion...? Operators and Schools need to get their acts together.. the rest of us can carry on driving around in potential fire bombs... Yeeha!
Which was essentially my point to Codprawn - if he is claiming the duty back from the fuel on the basis that it is being used commercially then he must be transporting that same fuel as a commercial opperation.

Cod - I didn't say you couldn't do it. What I said was it would be worth doing it legally. As a commercial organisation moving this sort of quantity of petrol I would have thought (I'm not up to speed on the latest rules and exceptions) this means you might need Hazchem plates on the trailer, a couple of fire extinguishers, wheel chocks etc. which the DG by road rules expect.
__________________
Poly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18 October 2006, 13:36   #17
RIBnet admin team
 
Poly's Avatar
 
Country: UK - Scotland
Boat name: imposter
Make: FunYak
Length: 3m +
Engine: 2 stroke YAM 20 HP
MMSI: 235089819
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 10,114
Quote:
Originally Posted by codprawn View Post
Filling from Jerry cans is a dodgy propostition at best. I use a filter funnel and a jiggle syphon and yet I still manage to spill loads. Using a proper nozzle with an earthed pipe has to be a better bet???
I'm not doubting the common sense - just a lot of work getting your "bowser" set up, safe and legal to discover (1) no one will let you fill it OR (2) no one will let you fill the boat with it.
__________________
Poly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19 October 2006, 14:48   #18
Member
 
Country: UK - Wales
Town: St Davids
Boat name: 6 vessels -various
Make: Quinquari/Humber
Length: 10m +
Engine: Twin ETEC200s
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jono View Post
So, in conclusion...? Operators and Schools need to get their acts together.. the rest of us can carry on driving around in potential fire bombs... Yeeha!

For reasons of our own pax business and also the companies that we supply/advise we have studied this well but also called in HSE to inspect our operation.

Conclusion is that it is legal to transport up to 220litres. There are many points but as a guide.

1. Use approved containers.
2. Containers must be in sep. compartment from driver eg. pick up/trailer.
3. Do not confuse storage with transport.... dont leave you truck parked up full of cans on the highway.
4. Max that can be transported is 220 litres.

The fueling operation then need sound mangement and we advise.

1. Truck has daily/monthly and yearly checks just as you would with a PSV. Remember the greatest risk is an RTA so reducing this risk is no. 1.
2. Truck is cleay marked with DG warning triangles. Cans also marked.
3. Auto fire extingushers fitted to truck. Manual ones also inside cab.
4. Cans are checked on a monthly basis by our workshop ... all these checks logged.
5. Limit to any can being 25kg for lifting HSE issues.
6. We have a company training prog. for fuel handlers and an internal exam that they must sit each year before being able to do that job.
7. A thorough RA plan on the proceedure following everything from earthing to leaving empty (fume filled) cans on the quay. The plan must also show a system of audit. Include everything from smoking/spill proceedures/dermatitis from fuel splash etc and make sure truck has suitable equipment on board. Not as difficult to do as sounds.

With regards to Cod Prawns idea then a professional approach would be to contact Fuel Proof who make dedicated bowsers and are hopeful to get the first such legal tank on the road soon. I am aware of a commercial operator who used a similar (CP) tank and is currently being prosectuted.

Same old story in that if you do it commercial then you have to throw good money at it and do it right. We supplied and advised the London Operation as mentioned and that has also been audited.

To throw a spanner in the works do remember that diesel is now under DG regs !

And CP, if you can afford the 400 litres then surely you can afford to settle the gesture that is long overdue or maybe we should leave that to another thread oneday !

Cheers

John
www.quinquarimarine.co.uk
__________________
quinquarimarine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19 October 2006, 18:28   #19
Member
 
Country: UK - Wales
Town: swansea
Boat name: Too Blue
Make: BLANK
Length: 8m +
Engine: Suzuki DT225
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 12,791
Quote:
Originally Posted by quinquarimarine View Post

And CP, if you can afford the 400 litres then surely you can afford to settle the gesture that is long overdue or maybe we should leave that to another thread oneday !

Cheers

John
www.quinquarimarine.co.uk

I have been trying to find the time to pop down to see you - I keep tripping over them but none of the bottles have smashed yet - anyway I thought they improve with age.....
__________________
codprawn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20 October 2006, 02:59   #20
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Wilmslow
Boat name: Serotonin
Make: Quicksilver
Length: 3m +
Engine: Mariner 15
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 712
Why not stick the boat on a trailer and fill her up at the petrol station?

If he did that, is it legal to have more than 220 litres in her?
__________________

__________________
fred bolton is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:34.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.