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Old 23 March 2007, 18:23   #41
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Might be a bit of a sissy idea. But how about when not bombing around at sea on your Rib you wear a buoyancy aid for the mundane launching and mooring tasks. Saves paying for auto jackets that go off unnecessarily and gives you a means of floating.

Also personally over a period of time I am going to equip four lifejackets with a waterproof VHF radio each. In the Solent that should be enough to talk to the rescue services if required. My max passenger load will be four 99% of the time.

Also anything less than a ship then I think you should always have some sort of a lifejacket on. They are so convenient and lightweight its silly not to. And given the number of accidents on trawlers its probably time that the crews were eduacated to wear drysuits/survival suits all the time. It might be inconvenient but it would save a lot of lives.

IMHO.
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Old 23 March 2007, 18:29   #42
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Also anything less than a ship then I think you should always have some sort of a lifejacket on. They are so convenient and lightweight its silly not to. And given the number of accidents on trawlers its probably time that the crews were eduacated to wear drysuits/survival suits all the time. It might be inconvenient but it would save a lot of lives.

IMHO.
They would love that in July when it's 30C - especially when they collapse with heat exhaustion. Remember it was June when this accident happened. The trouble is it takes the water so long to warm up - the sea is prob at it's warmest in Sept/Oct after the summer has gone.
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Old 24 March 2007, 01:36   #43
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They would love that in July when it's 30C - especially when they collapse with heat exhaustion. Remember it was June when this accident happened.
Well, you will notice that most rescue orgs wear their lifejackets no matter what the temp. Love it or not, they'll have them on.

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Old 24 March 2007, 07:32   #44
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Well, you will notice that most rescue orgs wear their lifejackets no matter what the temp. Love it or not, they'll have them on.

jky
Yes but in fairness they tend to be travelling at high speeds and not hauling in pots and nets which does tend to make you quite warm!!!
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Old 24 March 2007, 10:37   #45
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isn't this tragedy

about "if only" ...and that is what we should take from it.
We dont have limitless budget when equipping a boat.
Lots of things would have made a difference in this case,
and who knew whether the unfortunate people involved had told themselves,
as I have, when I get a little more money I will get a personal epirb, a handheld VHF attached to a lifejacket, a float free liferaft etc etc....
It does not stop you wanting to go out and enjoy yourself on the water, but responsibility for your safety and that of your crew rests with you! You have to accept the risks involved - you can only do your best to minimise the risks.
I imagine there were several moments when the men in the water were thinking "if only I had got a ..such and such .."
No sense in back biting and recriminatory comments here. Just consider your own safety equipment (or lack of it) and address those issues as a matter of priority. Wishing you had spent the £200 or £300 on the right safety kit ?...well... if you ever are so unlucky as to find yourself in their situation, I'm sure you will be thinking of all the things you had spent that sort of money on, when personal safety should have come first.
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Old 24 March 2007, 12:19   #46
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about "if only" ...and that is what we should take from it.
We dont have limitless budget when equipping a boat.
Lots of things would have made a difference in this case,
and who knew whether the unfortunate people involved had told themselves,
as I have, when I get a little more money I will get a personal epirb, a handheld VHF attached to a lifejacket, a float free liferaft etc etc....
It does not stop you wanting to go out and enjoy yourself on the water, but responsibility for your safety and that of your crew rests with you! You have to accept the risks involved - you can only do your best to minimise the risks.
I imagine there were several moments when the men in the water were thinking "if only I had got a ..such and such .."
No sense in back biting and recriminatory comments here. Just consider your own safety equipment (or lack of it) and address those issues as a matter of priority. Wishing you had spent the £200 or £300 on the right safety kit ?...well... if you ever are so unlucky as to find yourself in their situation, I'm sure you will be thinking of all the things you had spent that sort of money on, when personal safety should have come first.
Much of the enjoyment of ribbing can come from the adrenaline you get when doing something which carries something of a risk, take away the risk and you take away much of the enjoyment. I doubt that any of us here wish to be wrapped in cotton wool for our own safety.
I however believe that some things should be considered essential, if you go out on a boat (not a ferry!) you should be wearing a life jacket, and you should ensure your boat is adequately maintained. I have nothing even remotely resembling a bottomless pit of money to spend on safety equipment and if I did and I put everything you can buy on my boat it'd probably sink with the extra weight. I do however ensure that I and any passengers I have are wearing a life jacket before they step on the boat, its as automatic as putting my seat belt on in the car.
One of the tragic things about the Pamela is that they already had all the things which you said you would like if you had the money, but they didnt use them, if they had things may have been different, its such a shame that a man lost his life in what must have been the most terrifying of circumstances, whilst another will I'm sure be haunted by his experience for the rest of his life.
If some very basic safety precautions had been followed things could possibly have been very very different for so many people and thats the lesson i think we should learn from this.
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Old 24 March 2007, 16:10   #47
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Whatever peoples thoughts are about this. It is good that we can talk about this and by doing so raise awareness to the fact that boating can be risky and we should at least be aware that it can all go horribly wrong.
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Old 24 March 2007, 16:20   #48
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Whatever peoples thoughts are about this. It is good that we can talk about this and by doing so raise awareness to the fact that boating can be risky and we should at least be aware that it can all go horribly wrong.
Agreed .. less rants .. more discussion
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Old 25 March 2007, 02:02   #49
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I had a similar discussion about diving a few months ago. Specifically, about training, and practicing emergency procedures. That degenerated into a list of emergency equipment that one should carry on a dive.

One person insisted his students learn how to deal with a failure that, as far as he and I know, has never occured (both second stages packing up, requiring him to remove the BC, turn off tank, somehow purge the system, remove first stage, and then surface breathing off the tank valve. He saw it as a reasonable exercise, because "if that happened to you, you'd be dead if you didn't know how to do this." Truth be told, I'd be dead if it happened and I did know how to do that.

Another dove with a handheld GPS and VHF in case he got lost. (not a bad idea for offshore stuff, but this guy was diving in a bay, off the beach. Seemed like overkill to me.)

Point is, you can't be prepared for all emergencies. If you try, you soon find that you have immobilised yourself from the weight of safety gear, or that you are worrying so much about what *might* happen that you never enjoy what is happening.

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Old 25 March 2007, 11:25   #50
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and equally

I want to enjoy myself knowing that I am covered with adequate safety equipment.... instead of being anxious about not.
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