Tragedy at Padstow - 5 May 2013

[thomas]

That sort of comment drives me mad, it's not a question of being perfect, it's common sense isn't it? how can you defend someone who ignores something as vital as this - they not only puts the lives of themselves and passengers at risk but also other people on the water. Sorry I forgot is simply not good enough.

Unless you have an Etec or a Mercury with a switch on the kill cord you should always carry a spare and the crew should know where it is, or am I being 'perfect' again.

[Searider]

Originally Posted by thomas

That sort of comment drives me mad, it's not a question of being perfect, it's common sense isn't it? how can you defend someone who ignores something as vital as this - they not only puts the lives of themselves and passengers at risk but also other people on the water. Sorry I forgot is simply not good enough.

Unless you have an Etec or a Mercury with a switch on the kill cord you should always carry a spare and the crew should know where it is, or am I being 'perfect' again.

May not have "ignored" the need to clip on the kill cord.

Could simply have forgotten to clip it on. It's easily done. Everyone forgets from time to time.

[thomas]

I guess I'm the only one that thinks forgetting these things is not an option, but will put my money where my mouth is....

Anyone who wants a self adhesive graphic in red saying 'KILL CORD' PM me and I'll send you one FOC.

[boggled_iam]

Has anyone thought the kill cord seemingly dangling from the kill switch could have been one the chap who boarded the rib used to bring the boat back into padstow harbour?

The helm may have had it clipped to himself and the switch failed.

Mark.

[PeterM]

Good to hear Paul Glatzel on the radio 2 putting a view across.....lots of stuff on same show that is maybe not so helpful or realistic or up to date....

[macattack101]

Originally Posted by wavelength

I hadnt realised how many perfect people there were in this world. I'm sure the rest of us mere mortals are in awe!
Radio kill cords-used some on a demo boat at a show a good few years back and I'm sure the technology has improved since - but I hated them, tested mine and found it didnt always work-refused to continue wearing it and went back to the piece of string.
Were to wear it? Round the wrist and it gets tangled in the wheel boss. Round the leg is our normal but I have seen the cox'n come out of the seat and end up head down/legs up in the bottom of a (coastguard!) rib at speed and his legs hadn't fallen far enough to pull the switch! I leaned over from the aft navigator's seat to pull the cord-scary esp when my daughter shouted from the stern to say sorry that she didn't have chance to shout man overboard. When we looked she was in the boat but hanging on to another crew member who was in the water.
I'm thinking the way forward for us may be a kill cord on every buoyancy aid/lifejacket on the boat and no spare. That way (unless they flip the switch) when you leave the helm the cord comes out and cant be started by another crew member unless he clips his personal kill cord into the switch, and he needs to actually have possession of the buoyance aid. On the other hand we havent had an issue on our boats - as yet!

That's a great idea about the cord on the life jacket. This horrible incident has made me look at what we do onboard and I admit I have been too lazy to enforce kill cord use which is crazy as I am very zealous regarding life jackets and other safety gear. I will order 3 today and fit to the life jackets.

[Nick Hearne]

Originally Posted by boggled_iam

Has anyone thought the kill cord seemingly dangling from the kill switch could have been one the chap who boarded the rib used to bring the boat back into padstow harbour?

The helm may have had it clipped to himself and the switch failed.

Mark.

Yes I had the same thought, it is not our place to judge let alone when we do not know the facts!

[wavelength]

Unless you have an Etec or a Mercury with a switch on the kill cord you should always carry a spare and the crew should know where it is, or am I being 'perfect' again

No not perfect just.......
I said remove our spare-in fact we have several and I mean all of them (may well leave them onboard out of sight) , the idea then is that the spares are substituted by all those on each passenger/crews ljt/buoyancy aids so if someone is left onboard he will have a spare on his jacket that he will have to connect and it will not be devalued by someone grabbing a spare and shoving it in without connecting to himself. Seems simple enough to an imperfect individual like me. Anyway thats the way I'm going, been thinking of it for years and this seems the prompt I needed to do it.

[Powerboat]

Hi folks, Hi Jon,

Following the awful accident over with you in the UK and a similar serious accident here in Ireland last season, I had a few emails over the weekend from people asking about a small piece I did called "Kill Cords Save Lives" a few years ago when I was more active on this forum and before I set up my own Irish boat forum.

The piece can be found both here http://www.rib.net/forum/f8/length-o...tml#post121845 and also my own forum at Powerboat.ie.

Hopefully, it will be of use to new comers to RIBs and boating.

Kind regards,

Stuart

[chris.moody]

Can we please stop guessing what happened and leave the poor man alone. He POSSIBLY made a mistake and paid dearly with his life and the lives of his loved ones.

The people we should be seriously harassing are the ones still alive and still deliberately driving ribs without wearing the killcord. Seen offenders both yesterday and today.

[Cookee]

Originally Posted by John Kennett

IMO they are not much worse than jockey seats, but neither are actually fit for purpose on fast boats.

+1 - As a hard boat as well as a RIB builder I think that one of the issues generally is that deeper Vee hulls are more prone to hooking especially with the increased horsepower over the engines they were fitted with when the boats were originally designed many years ago.

I have never been a big fan of jockey seats and whilst they have their place in smaller rescue boats capable of slow planing speeds I think that the higher the speed the more of a danger they can potentially cause, especially in inexperienced hands.

[davesailing2004]

Very sorry for those involved but some of the comments on here make me laugh;
Regarding the Killcord being on the boat as it was recovered, wasn't the bloke driving it onto the trailer and may have used a KC off another boat/spare?

No, i'm very much the same.... Do i use a KC all the time... No i admit i don't.. Its all about risk assessment , I've learned through a combination of education and experience to recognise when the KC is needed. If im just pootling around at low speed in uncongested sheltered waters then the risk of something going wrong is small enough for me to justify not wearing it.
If however i have passengers and whizzing aling at higher speeds or i'm on my own in adverse weather conditions then yes i clip on.
Why not wear it all the time? Well because i got fed up of accidentally triggering a shutdown on the occasions i have had to help somebody onboard in a hurry ( if they've fallen or about to fall in the water or need assistance in some form or another). Its just one less thing to worry about before going to help.

Im not saying that the way i do it is correct but i feel happy to do it this way.

The difficult bit is recognising the increase in risk.

i have removed the posters name but honestly for the 2 seconds it takes to put the KC on... if you trip while moving around the boat with it in gear and get ejected on a perfectly calm day how does that figure in your risk assessment?
There are many more comments the same

Another one that makes me laugh, "boats over 10HP" how are boats under 10HP less dangerous? we have a Avon Rover 3.10 with a 9.9HP 2stroke, when it was new it would do about 17MPH which of flat water was fun, when it got choppy (Bala/Windermere in a F4) it was a real handful and could though never did eject someone unwary very easily.

I also understand (though may be wrong) that the 9.9 was specifically introduced to bypass a piece of American legislation regarding "engines of 10HP or greater) and lets face it what really is the difference between 9.9 & 10 HP?

One of the things i always teach when running PB corses is where to attach the KC, round the knee, onto the lifejacket (not the zip or under a velcro strap), and pulled up snug. Round the wrist will slip off easily and can get tangled in the throttle or steering reducing the ability to control the boat.

People/companies will go to some lengths to avoid tiresome rules, educate people on why the KC is so important (this news story while tragic may help.

[Mick Balch]

Originally Posted by thomas

I guess I'm the only one that thinks forgetting these things is not an option, but will put my money where my mouth is....

Anyone who wants a self adhesive graphic in red saying 'KILL CORD' PM me and I'll send you one FOC.

In the abscence of any other mandatory requirements all we can all do is learn from experience, ours or that of others. I agree with this member that we all ought to take more action to remind ourselves to check we are using the kill cord, the addition of a simple written reminder buy way of using an adhesive console label is a cheap visual aid in doing just that.

Sadly although this incident is making headlines it wont be next week and as sad as it is, the future of safe boating is left to others. It would be a fitting tribute to all those involved in yesterdays disaster (inc RNLI etc) if ALL ribnet users place a standard (agreed notice) in a visable postion on board our boats. Perhaps as a group of likeminded individuals we could get these notices endorsed by the RNLI and donate a fiver to the RNLI for each one?

Surely as a group of people supporting and enjoying a so far unrestricted activity we can organise ourselves in order to improve our own safety and that of others on the water.

IMO beats speculating and blaming people all day long!

[Mick Balch]

Forgot to mention 14885 Ribnet users registered, thats a lot of people who can make a difference / influence RIB / Fastboat safety, directly or indirectly.

If you know someone who never wears a kill cord perhaps you should give them a gentle shove, if all members tell two people and they tell two people, get the message.

Engine suppliers, come on, for each new install provide this standard warning / advice sign so that the installer can place accordingly.

Insurance companies, send the same out when inviting renewals. RNLI include in your next mailer?

Judging by the posts I have read I get the feeling that within boating in general those using a KC on a routine basis are in the minority.

[Sibbo90]

Originally Posted by boggled_iam

Has anyone thought the kill cord seemingly dangling from the kill switch could have been one the chap who boarded the rib used to bring the boat back into padstow harbour?

The helm may have had it clipped to himself and the switch failed.

Mark.

Good post, this was exactly my thought...... too much supposition, lets let the professionals do their best to get to the FACTS!!

[C2 RIBS]

Originally Posted by Mick Balch

Forgot to mention 14885 Ribnet users registered, thats a lot of people who can make a difference / influence RIB / Fastboat safety, directly or indirectly.

If you know someone who never wears a kill cord perhaps you should give them a gentle shove, if all members tell two people and they tell two people, get the message.

Engine suppliers, come on, for each new install provide this standard warning / advice sign so that the installer can place accordingly.

Insurance companies, send the same out when inviting renewals. RNLI include in your next mailer?

Judging by the posts I have read I get the feeling that within boating in general those using a KC on a routine basis are in the minority.

Powerboat and Rib Magazine have posted this on FB- So someone in a position has started the ball rolling-


"This terrible tragedy, like so many others which have occurred in recent years, would appear to be so easily avoided. The oversight of not attaching the Kill Cord is repeatedly made by hundreds of people each year - I see it on the part of even professionals in the industry. We here at PBR are responding to this ongoing oversight on the part of boat owners/operators by issuing white on red console warning stickers - 'Attach The Kill Switch'. This will be supplied free of charge to all our readers and supplied to all manufacturers, boat builders, sea schools and yacht clubs. In addition we will push for legislation to make sure that such a console warning sign is mandatory on every boat sold/in use in the UK along with the Kill Cord itself. Fines should be imposed on any craft not abiding by these requirements. PBR is also in favor of a mandatory licence of competency before any boat can be sold/driven. We shall be pushing hard for these requirements be made at government level. HMS"

RYA AND RNLI hand out stickers for your boats at events- "wear a kill cord" and also lifejackets and they have been on the case for years. All RYA training establishments instruct with kill cord use. I am not sure that a minority only use the KC but there are a large number of people who ignore it just like vehcile seat belts and driving using a phone

Interesting comments about each rib helm speaking to others, I saw so many yesterday - 24hrs after this tragedy I would not have moved much due to others stupidity, great idea but how would another helm take being advised/asked/told to do something? I am behind anything to prevent this sort of death and injuries

AND THIS in last few hrs on FB
"Just seen a 8m Cobra with 5 on board leaving Haven quay with no lifejackets on and kill cord not attached !!! what have got to do to get people to do basic things?" Does suggest even horrific news wont change some people

[Chris Caton]

Originally Posted by chris.moody

can we please stop guessing what happened and leave the poor man alone. He possibly made a mistake and paid dearly with his life and the lives of his loved ones.

+1

[Seabay]

My thoughts go out to all involved in this tragedy. I for one enjoyed the Bank holiday on the water and did forget to attach my cord a few times but thankfully noticed shortly after leaving the pontoon,

[HUMBER P4VWL]

Originally Posted by chris.moody

Can we please stop guessing what happened and leave the poor man alone. He POSSIBLY made a mistake and paid dearly with his life and the lives of his loved ones.

The people we should be seriously harassing are the ones still alive and still deliberately driving ribs without wearing the killcord. Seen offenders both yesterday and today.

Agreed.

What's the point in making unfounded sweeping statements like "more money than sense"?

Most of us knew nothing of the man other than what we've read. we did not know him or his families sense, finances or person. Amazing how people love to armchair pontificate.

Focus on this sad tragedy helping others to be more aware. God rest his soul and thoughts are with his family.

[paddlers]

Originally Posted by HUMBER P4VWL

Agreed.

What's the point in making unfounded sweeping statements like "more money than sense"?

Most of us knew nothing of the man other than what we've read. we did not know him or his families sense, finances or person. Amazing how people love to armchair pontificate.

Focus on this sad tragedy helping others to be more aware. God rest his soul and thoughts are with his family.

+1. Exactly.