Tragedy at Padstow - 5 May 2013

[Starovich]

Originally Posted by matt h

I wonder if the steering had air in it? some thing caused the occupants to be ejected out rapidly> over compensation maybe? can this happen with Hyd steering that needs bleeding?

makes no odds, kill cord would have saved lives. the victims would have been wet, cold and embarrassed but alive and un-mutilated.

[Boats&Outboards]

Originally Posted by Doolally

This tragedy has really made me think a lot as a relatively new ribster. The fella I bought my first rib off stressed the use of the kill chord but didn't really say where to attach it. I started by attaching it to a buckle on my lifejacket but it was a bit fiddly. Subsequently an instructor told me to wrap it round my leg but I have either killed the engine moving around the boat or it has slipped off.

I have forgotten to attach it at least 5 times over two years just because its a dangly bit of chord. I am not sure how I can make myself remember. I am thinking of attaching some flourescent tape around the clip and attaching it to the console or print myself a big sticker. I am responsible and safety conscious but I just don't find it as normal ad putting a car seat belt on. Hopefully good things will come out of the result of the investigation.

Disconnect the kill cord when your not on the boat, this way you'll have to fit it before you can start the engine, which might give the reminder your looking for to actually wear it at the same time. If you ever forgot to fit it your engine wouldn't start so there's your reminder.

Peter @ Boatsandoutboards4sale ~ www.BoatsandOutboards4Sale.co.uk ~ 07930 421007

[HUMBER P4VWL]

Originally Posted by MarkWildey

This is such a sad story for all concerned and my wishes goes to those who survived, their family and friends

I'm not about to pass a view on the cause or where the fault lies because from my couch I don't know the full facts.

Many years ago someone made an observation to me that if I, as driver, fell out of the boat how would my crew get back to me as the kill cord was attached to me. Since then I always carried a spare kill cord attached to the boat so that my crew could get the boat going again and pick me up!

Ours is attached to a toggle switch. (Optimax) Those remaining on board simply flick it back and start it up. Always do a run through of it and radio at outset for passengers.

What a loss. Awful.

[Nos4r2]

Originally Posted by Doolally

This tragedy has really made me think a lot as a relatively new ribster. The fella I bought my first rib off stressed the use of the kill chord but didn't really say where to attach it. I started by attaching it to a buckle on my lifejacket but it was a bit fiddly. Subsequently an instructor told me to wrap it round my leg but I have either killed the engine moving around the boat or it has slipped off.

I have forgotten to attach it at least 5 times over two years just because its a dangly bit of chord. I am not sure how I can make myself remember. I am thinking of attaching some flourescent tape around the clip and attaching it to the console or print myself a big sticker. I am responsible and safety conscious but I just don't find it as normal ad putting a car seat belt on. Hopefully good things will come out of the result of the investigation.

Mine's mostly clipped to the keys if it's not attached to me. It's hard to forget it when you look down and see it attached to the key you're looking for.

[Anchorhandler]

Originally Posted by Portholme

God knows how many times I've manoeuvred the boat in sheltered waters, without a kill cord, especially if I need to get to bow lines or land on a dock or some such. I'm expecting backlash but wtf, it's the truth.

No, i'm very much the same.... Do i use a KC all the time... No i admit i don't.. Its all about risk assessment , I've learned through a combination of education and experience to recognise when the KC is needed. If im just pootling around at low speed in uncongested sheltered waters then the risk of something going wrong is small enough for me to justify not wearing it.
If however i have passengers and whizzing aling at higher speeds or i'm on my own in adverse weather conditions then yes i clip on.
Why not wear it all the time? Well because i got fed up of accidentally triggering a shutdown on the occasions i have had to help somebody onboard in a hurry ( if they've fallen or about to fall in the water or need assistance in some form or another). Its just one less thing to worry about before going to help.

Im not saying that the way i do it is correct but i feel happy to do it this way.

The difficult bit is recognising the increase in risk.



Simon

Sent from my iPhone using Rib.net

[Poly]

Originally Posted by Doolally

I have forgotten to attach it at least 5 times over two years just because its a dangly bit of chord. I am not sure how I can make myself remember. I am thinking of attaching some flourescent tape around the clip and attaching it to the console or print myself a big sticker. I am responsible and safety conscious but I just don't find it as normal ad putting a car seat belt on. Hopefully good things will come out of the result of the investigation.

If you can get in the habit of clipping to wheel or screen then its in your face or needs removed before your start. It still won't guarantee it - but helps to get into the habit. The other 'trick' is to keep it attached to YOU when you get out. Then you have to reconnect to drive.

[Mollers]

What caused the ejection is almost an irrelevance imv. I'm sure that the facts will be established in time. It's the whole killcord issue which is wrecking my head.
This guy was obviously an intelligent man, why would he endanger those so precious to him by not wearing a KC? A lack of experience,knowledge,training, awareness?

[Raygun]

the Sun on the link below. There is a mark under the bow on the hull suggesting that it hit something perhaps.

On another look, the mark under the bow may be a lashing strap, hard to tell from the photo.

[lakelandterrier]

I've beeen foolwing the posts on here and the news today. and this is undoubtably a sad and tragic event. Many of us with families may both be angry and about what "appears" to be an avoidable event, and also be feeling for the family and friends of those involved to whom I offer my condolences - no matter what the reason for the event.

There are a number of questions to be answered including the use - or not - of the kill cord and what event colud have tipped all six onboard into the water, I'm not sure we on this forum have the definitive answer - we don't have all the evidence, so let's leave that to the authorities.

IF we believe that this demonstrates the potential outcome of not using the killcord - then ensure, by whatever means, notice on console, cross check by other crew etc... that the helm (or captain) always wears it. IF this makes anyone question their abilty to handle a craft doing x manoevere with y power available, then consider your competance / experience.

Whatever the final outcome of the enquiries, this has obviously made a lot of people think about potential consequences. If nothing else we should do our best to make sure we as individuals do not allow anything like this to happen on boats we are responsible for

[Downhilldai]

If anyone's experienced or seen a boat 'hook' then you'll recognise how easy it is to eject all passengers.

I'm not saying this is what happened here and I think speculation is inappropriate, but it may answer some of the posters asking for an explanation as to how people can get thrown out of boats.

[m chappelow]

For all we know the helm may Have been wearing the kill cord,
I have seen it happen where the kill cord has been clipped to the belt loop of a pair of jeans or trousers
the cord then gets wrapped around the steering wheel hub a couple of times ,
Helm falls overboard as the cords now got a few turns around the wheel hub it won't activate the switch but snaps the belt loop on the jeans instead leaving the cord in situ & the engine running .

[simsy]

Poor kids and mum, all hurting physically and mentally... Pure horror, will be lying in hospital now having flash backs for days and days of prop in water etc...

A said above, pretty much any power boat, never mind this beast, can spit you out when things go wrong, and you have no chance of staying seated. It can be so violent when hull hits water sideways.....

[Mollers]

Originally Posted by m chappelow

For all we know the helm may Have been wearing the kill cord,
I have seen it happen where the kill cord has been clipped to the belt loop of a pair of jeans or trousers
the cord then gets wrapped around the steering wheel hub a couple of times ,
Helm falls overboard as the cords now got a few turns around the wheel hub it won't activate the switch but snaps the belt loop on the jeans instead leaving the cord in situ & the engine running .

The KC can clearly be seen attached and untangled in the video of the boat being recovered.

[batman4ck]

Tragic. Very tragic...
Such a waste....

[chris.moody]

Originally Posted by Boats&Outboards

Disconnect the kill cord when your not on the boat, this way you'll have to fit it before you can start the engine, which might give the reminder your looking for to actually wear it at the same time. If you ever forgot to fit it your engine wouldn't start so there's your reminder.

Peter @ Boatsandoutboards4sale ~ www.BoatsandOutboards4Sale.co.uk ~ 07930 421007

Excellent advice from Peter, also make sure you test the kill cord actually works regularly by pulling it with the engine running on tickover.

[thomas]

Not sure if jockey seats have been mentioned yet, they maybe not the most comfortable things to sit on but certainly much safer than the perches this boat seems to have, it looks like a beautiful boat but the layout is not suited to poor conditions, I can see how easy it would be to loose everyone with the seating arrangement it has. More of a gin palace than a serious RIB.

We don't need new ideas to cut engines, there are kill cords fitted to every outboard and they work, people just need to use them and is seems that requires some sort of training, even an hour with some one from the RYA or an instructor would be enough.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by thomas

Not sure if jockey seats have been mentioned yet,

they have

they maybe not the most comfortable things to sit on but certainly much safer than the perches this boat seems to have,

interestingly their appears to be a difference of opinion. You presumably have tested the Cobra leaning post before publicly criticising it though?

it looks like a beautiful boat but the layout is not suited to poor conditions, I can see how easy it would be to loose everyone with the seating arrangement it has. More of a gin palace than a serious RIB.

it wasn't being used in "poor conditions" but I am sure the seating arrangements will form part of the MAIB investigation.

We don't need new ideas to cut engines, there are kill cords fitted to every outboard and they work, people just need to use them and is seems that requires some sort of training, even an hour with some one from the RYA or an instructor would be enough.

If you read the thread you will see that experienced people who wear them "all" the time admit to on occasions having forgotten the cord. Any system which can be forgotten has room for improvement.

[thomas]

No, I've not tried this leaning position, I stand corrected, but it didn't help this poor sod stay in the boat, but I have sat on a rear bench similar to the one on this boat and didn't feel particularly safe, what is there on this boat for passengers to hold on to if things get hairy? These weren't poor conditions but would you sit back there in a F5 at speed?

I'm sorry but if you are an 'experienced' person and you forget your kill cord then sell the boat and buy some gold clubs, this is not an acceptable excuse, it's a big red coiled lead flapping about and you should feel as naked without it as you would driving a car without a seat belt.

[Oscarguitar]

I'm not trying to defend the leaning post arrangement or bench seating however one thing that Cobra do provide is a strong well anchored bar around the screen and a massive grab bar for those behind the helm. There are also large rubber grab handles/cleats on the inside of the tubes by the rear seats.

However with the forces that were clearly in action on this occasion it is doubtful that anyone could have held on.

Would jockey seats have resulted in a higher centre of gravity for those using them and an equal chance for them to be thrown out, especially children whose feet may not reach the deck and may not be able to reach any grab handles in front or on the seat base?

I would be interested to know what type of seating those on here who have been ejected from a rib at speed were using.

[wavelength]

I'm sorry but if you are an 'experienced' person and you forget your kill cord then sell the boat

I hadnt realised how many perfect people there were in this world. I'm sure the rest of us mere mortals are in awe!
Radio kill cords-used some on a demo boat at a show a good few years back and I'm sure the technology has improved since - but I hated them, tested mine and found it didnt always work-refused to continue wearing it and went back to the piece of string.
Were to wear it? Round the wrist and it gets tangled in the wheel boss. Round the leg is our normal but I have seen the cox'n come out of the seat and end up head down/legs up in the bottom of a (coastguard!) rib at speed and his legs hadn't fallen far enough to pull the switch! I leaned over from the aft navigator's seat to pull the cord-scary esp when my daughter shouted from the stern to say sorry that she didn't have chance to shout man overboard. When we looked she was in the boat but hanging on to another crew member who was in the water.
I'm thinking the way forward for us may be a kill cord on every buoyancy aid/lifejacket on the boat and no spare. That way (unless they flip the switch) when you leave the helm the cord comes out and cant be started by another crew member unless he clips his personal kill cord into the switch, and he needs to actually have possession of the buoyance aid. On the other hand we havent had an issue on our boats - as yet!