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Old 08 May 2013, 08:40   #201
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mollers View Post
Precisely. There has been so much misinformation re steering. Jeremy Vine had an Rya expert on his prog yesterday, explaining how the steering would flop to hard over due to torque reaction.
I suppose that depends on whether the hydraulics are still working and in which case as cookee says will hold a course until boat is knocked off by wave etc or a slow starboard run, but from an incident we attended a few years ago - hydraulic steering failed ( can not recal exactly what gave out) but this meant the engine on transom had nothing to hold it in place and due to torque of engine/prop at 20-25knts the boat turn violently to starboard throwing everyone out of the boat, on this occassion the kill cord worked and stopped the boat outright. Even those people in the water (recovered as we arrived) were in shock and that was mid summer
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Old 08 May 2013, 08:44   #202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cookee;The footage of the boat being brought under contro which was presumably not that much later in the day showed flat calm water?
[IMG
http://www.skyhooked.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/cropped-LQ1A7550pac.jpg[/IMG]

This is precisely why I brought the subject up!!

Padstow harbour opens out to an estuary, the estuary can be completely flat water & to anybody who does not know the area they would assume it to be perfectly safe looking, it has beautiful clear waters too most of the year, frequent Dolphin sightings etc. The estuary opens into Daymer bay which opens NW is fully exposed to any prevailing swell that can come from the Atlantic.

I have been there windsurfing with a 5-8m swell (that is the massive!!!) coming through & down the estuary it can be epic because of the funnelling effect, a bit like the Severn Bore.

However trust me on this, you can be near the Doombar to the south of the estuary near the old lifeboat station, on an incoming tide in perfectly flat waters & get totally swamped from a wave that appears with seconds as it nears the shallows. Even in completely flat waters with no wind you can get massive waves appearing from nowhere.

Wkipedia: For centuries, the Doom Bar was regarded as a significant danger to ships—to be approached with caution to avoid running aground. It has accounted for over 600 beachings, wrecks and capsizings since records began early in the 19th century,[10] with about 300 being wrecks.[11]

Check out this filmed at Daymer Bay/Doombar it kind of shows what I'm on about Daymer Bay on Vimeo

This image shows the sandbar that is exposed at low tide, there have I think been hundreds of shipwrecks on it.
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Old 08 May 2013, 08:47   #203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mollers View Post
Precisely. There has been so much misinformation re steering. Jeremy Vine had an Rya expert on his prog yesterday, explaining how the steering would flop to hard over due to torque reaction.
He's actually correct if it was cable steering, however the likelihood of a 300hp RIB having cable steering is non existent!

Quote:
Originally Posted by C2 RIBS View Post
I suppose that depends on whether the hydraulics are still working and in which case as cookee says will hold a course until boat is knocked off by wave etc or a slow starboard run, but from an incident we attended a few years ago - hydraulic steering failed ( can not recal exactly what gave out) but this meant the engine on transom had nothing to hold it in place and due to torque of engine/prop at 20-25knts the boat turn violently to starboard throwing everyone out of the boat, on this occassion the kill cord worked and stopped the boat outright. Even those people in the water (recovered as we arrived) were in shock and that was mid summer
I could be wrong but I reckon that the Cobra would have been turning tighter and to Port if the steering had failed suddenly and as a pedantic point it should have turned to Port unless it was using a left handed prop?
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Old 08 May 2013, 09:08   #204
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Cheers Cookee. So getting my head around a single engine as described the engine will be forced to port if hydraulics fail on a normal set up engine not as I thought happened
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Old 08 May 2013, 09:54   #205
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Originally Posted by Rokraider View Post
personally, I often stand as I am going along as I am usually looking for people in the water and want the best view, so a pressure switch would not work for me.
totally agree - I wasn't suggesting a solution - more an observation on the fact that in other areas technologies have become more advanced and could we therefore explore possibilities...

however there will no doubt be different views - maybe the fact that you stand would cause difficulties - but another view (not necessarily mine) might be that the helm should not stand and be looking for people - a spotter should be used - etc.

I think that a big part of the problem is that so much kit has become so easy to use / so advanced - doing so much of the thinking for us, that there are not many areas of life still where you can buy something this powerful and with no training / understanding / thinking take it out... if owners are used to the kit (e.g. cars etc.) doing so much for them now - they may well not think in the right mindset for something like this - yet as we have seen they can be deadly...

I am not sure that we live in a world any more where it works for people to own kit which has such deadly potential hidden in such a friendly easy to use guise and where no automatic safety is built in / no legislation prevents use without training... not that I want legislation etc. - just that if everything else is automatically safe / legislated / not available unless trained / etc. then the areas where that is not so will cause issues

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Old 08 May 2013, 10:47   #206
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If the stearing had failed would the waterski instructor have been able to drive away like he did?
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Old 08 May 2013, 10:52   #207
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Not speculating on this incident specifically, but wr.t. steering, wasn't there an MAIB report where the root cause was found to be air in the hydraulics, causing the occupants to be ejected after an uncommanded turn?
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Old 08 May 2013, 11:19   #208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akirk View Post

however there will no doubt be different views - maybe the fact that you stand would cause difficulties - but another view (not necessarily mine) might be that the helm should not stand and be looking for people - a spotter should be used - etc.


Alasdair
When driving in big waves, I find it a) comfier to stand b) better visibilty over the wave.
When manoeuvering to pick up a dinghy or sailor, in my experience you have to stand to get a good view to judge your distances.

Personally I can't see any argument for not standing?
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Old 08 May 2013, 11:36   #209
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Just read (and spoken to a reliable source) that the guy who jumped on the boat did just pull the kill cord to stop the boat .....
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Old 08 May 2013, 12:04   #210
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Boat Straightened Out? & Video reversed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterM View Post
Just read (and spoken to a reliable source) that the guy who jumped on the boat did just pull the kill cord to stop the boat .....
A video posted on the Guardian appears to show him jump in, then the boat going straight. There could be several interpretations to what is seen in that video. Among them, is the boat being straightened out before it was stopped.
Speedboat left circling Padstow waters following crash - video | UK news | guardian.co.uk

And back to the discussion of which way the boat would be turning if it had a steering failure and comparing that to the videos, it is my understanding that some video cameras reverse left to right. The circling observed in the videos may have been going the other way around the loop?

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