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Old 06 October 2013, 11:43   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Festinghouse View Post
as for the 60mph rule in a 70, i was told it was based on vehicle weight - anything over 2ton is restricted.
Nope! a Disco weighs in at over 2500KG, 70mph on a dual carriage way for me, unless I'm towing My Van is 1800kg & is restricted to 60, there's no rhyme nor reason.
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Old 06 October 2013, 12:16   #42
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Originally Posted by Pikey Dave View Post
Nope! a Disco weighs in at over 2500KG, 70mph on a dual carriage way for me, unless I'm towing My Van is 1800kg & is restricted to 60, there's no rhyme nor reason.
Cos its a French van

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I stick to the above with the 130
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Old 06 October 2013, 14:29   #43
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This link has some useful info. The whole subject Is a bit of a nightmare..

http://www.ntta.co.uk/law/
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Old 06 October 2013, 15:32   #44
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Quote:
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Cos its a French van

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I stick to the above with the 130
that makes sense, think i will go with that!
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Old 07 October 2013, 05:20   #45
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So much misinformation in here. It's much more easy to think about when you know that gross weights are relevant to licences, whereas actual weights are relevant to vehicles.

When I write this it is with the assumption that everyone has the BE category on their licence.

A car with a GVW of 1500kg and a towing capability of 1000kg can tow a trailer with a gross weight of 3500kg, providing that the ACTUAL WEIGHT of the trailer and its load do not exeed 1000kg. If the trailer weighs 750kg unladen, that would allow a load of 250kg. Pretty pointless yes, but it means even the smallest of hatchbacks can move big trailers around providing they are empty. I moved an unladen twin car transporter with a 306 once, the trailer weighed 750kg unladen but the car could tow 1200kg. I would never dream of towing it loaded! But a friend needed the trailer moved and didn't have a car with a tow bar at the time so I did it. Perfectly legal.

When it comes to the towing capacity of the car, the trailers actual weight (including load) is the only figure that matters. Any car can tow even the biggest of trailers providing that their actual weight does not exceed the cars towing capacity. It just means that if you have a plant trailer with a 3500kg gross weight, which weighs 1000kg unladen, a Discovery could tow it with a 2500kg digger on whereas an estate car might only be able to tow it with a 500kg lawnmower on.

The rules are slightly different for people without the BE category though, and gross weights do come in to play.

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That's not how the man from the ministry explained it to me, GVW+plated trailer weight= GTW. I was told that the trailer weight is calculated at the plated weight, not its actual weight. E.g I can't tow a trailer with a plated weight of 4.5t with my disco as I would exceed the GTW , even if the trailer was empty & only weight 1t. Of course he might have been telling me a load of bollix. Just goes to show what a minefield it all is.
GTW only takes into account actual weights, providing the car (and its load) plus the trailer (and its load) do not equal more than the GTW of the car then you are legal, regardless of what the trailers plated maximum gross weight is. A Disco has a GVW of around 3200kg I think and can tow 3500kg, so the gross train weight will be around 6700kg. Note that the GVW + towing capacity does not always = GTW, it is normally a little lower.

Your Disco can tow any trailer providing its actual weight including load is not more than 3500kg.

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Originally Posted by fritz11 View Post
As far as I knew it, the towing capacity of the vehicle must match or exceed the plated weight of the trailer at all times, wether loaded or not.
Completely false, see above. My car has a 1900kg towing capacity yet it can legally tow a trailer with a 4000kg plated weight.

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Correct you couldn't tow a 4.5 ton played trailer with your disco, as all trailers plated above 3.5 tons require air brakes.
Not necessarily true. As far as I know there is no licence defined limit on the maximum weight of a trailer towed by a category B vehicle. However, there are not many (though there are some) such vehicles which are plated to tow more than 3500kg. Overrun brakes are only permitted upto 3500kg gross weight, anything else requires a close coupled brake system. I believe, electric, hydraulic and air are permitted. Land Rover Special Vehicles actually do a conversion for the Defender to change the brakes to air and this includes lorry style 'suzi' air lines so you can tow a trailer with air brakes, although these are pretty rare they do exist. The manual for the Defender states its towing capacity is actually 4000kg if a suitable braking system is used.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Festinghouse View Post
the instructor who got me through the b+e test told me it was all about what the plate says the maximum the car could weigh is, and the maximum weight of the trailer - this is why i had to do the test - whilst doing most of my towing the actual weight of my car and trailer is actually under the 3500kg limit, but because the plates read a lot more, it meant i was towing illegally!
as for the 60mph rule in a 70, i was told it was based on vehicle weight - anything over 2ton is restricted.
Correct, when you do not have BE on your licence then it is the gross weights which are important. The combination of the GVW of the towing vehicle and gross weight of the trailer cannot exceed 3500kg regardless of the actual weights. This means that if you are driving a car with a GVW of 2000kg then you cannot tow a trailer which has a gross weight of 1501kg, even if it is empty and only weighs 400kg! Yet you could tow a trailer with a gross weight of 1500kg fully loaded.

Funnily enough the B+E test vehicle requirements specify that the trailer you use must be at least as high as the towing vehicle and almost as wide, with a minimum gross weight of 1000kg. There are plenty of box trailers which would be suitable for the test which are around 1000kg gross weight, and with such a trailer there are many tow cars which you would be able to use which fall within the B licence towing limits. So you could technically drive alone (with trailer) to the test centre, slap L plates on, do the test, then even if you fail you could just take the L plates off and drive home again as you're still legal.
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Old 07 October 2013, 07:32   #46
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So much misinformation in here. It's much more easy to think about when you know that gross weights are relevant to licences, whereas actual weights are relevant to vehicles.

When I write this it is with the assumption that everyone has the BE category on their licence.

A car with a GVW of 1500kg and a towing capability of 1000kg can tow a trailer with a gross weight of 3500kg, providing that the ACTUAL WEIGHT of the trailer and its load do not exeed 1000kg. If the trailer weighs 750kg unladen, that would allow a load of 250kg. Pretty pointless yes, but it means even the smallest of hatchbacks can move big trailers around providing they are empty. I moved an unladen twin car transporter with a 306 once, the trailer weighed 750kg unladen but the car could tow 1200kg. I would never dream of towing it loaded! But a friend needed the trailer moved and didn't have a car with a tow bar at the time so I did it. Perfectly legal.

When it comes to the towing capacity of the car, the trailers actual weight (including load) is the only figure that matters. Any car can tow even the biggest of trailers providing that their actual weight does not exceed the cars towing capacity. It just means that if you have a plant trailer with a 3500kg gross weight, which weighs 1000kg unladen, a Discovery could tow it with a 2500kg digger on whereas an estate car might only be able to tow it with a 500kg lawnmower on.

The rules are slightly different for people without the BE category though, and gross weights do come in to play.



GTW only takes into account actual weights, providing the car (and its load) plus the trailer (and its load) do not equal more than the GTW of the car then you are legal, regardless of what the trailers plated maximum gross weight is. A Disco has a GVW of around 3200kg I think and can tow 3500kg, so the gross train weight will be around 6700kg. Note that the GVW + towing capacity does not always = GTW, it is normally a little lower.

Your Disco can tow any trailer providing its actual weight including load is not more than 3500kg.



Completely false, see above. My car has a 1900kg towing capacity yet it can legally tow a trailer with a 4000kg plated weight.



Not necessarily true. As far as I know there is no licence defined limit on the maximum weight of a trailer towed by a category B vehicle. However, there are not many (though there are some) such vehicles which are plated to tow more than 3500kg. Overrun brakes are only permitted upto 3500kg gross weight, anything else requires a close coupled brake system. I believe, electric, hydraulic and air are permitted. Land Rover Special Vehicles actually do a conversion for the Defender to change the brakes to air and this includes lorry style 'suzi' air lines so you can tow a trailer with air brakes, although these are pretty rare they do exist. The manual for the Defender states its towing capacity is actually 4000kg if a suitable braking system is used.



Correct, when you do not have BE on your licence then it is the gross weights which are important. The combination of the GVW of the towing vehicle and gross weight of the trailer cannot exceed 3500kg regardless of the actual weights. This means that if you are driving a car with a GVW of 2000kg then you cannot tow a trailer which has a gross weight of 1501kg, even if it is empty and only weighs 400kg! Yet you could tow a trailer with a gross weight of 1500kg fully loaded.

Funnily enough the B+E test vehicle requirements specify that the trailer you use must be at least as high as the towing vehicle and almost as wide, with a minimum gross weight of 1000kg. There are plenty of box trailers which would be suitable for the test which are around 1000kg gross weight, and with such a trailer there are many tow cars which you would be able to use which fall within the B licence towing limits. So you could technically drive alone (with trailer) to the test centre, slap L plates on, do the test, then even if you fail you could just take the L plates off and drive home again as you're still legal.
Good info & well put, at least things are becoming clearer.
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Old 07 October 2013, 13:19   #47
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that all contradicts everything ive read and been told - by people whos job it is to know. me and a friend tried to hire a car trailer once to move a mini bodyshell - no weight at all, but because of the plated max weight of the trailer they refused to let us hire it as we didnt have b+e on our licences. also im pretty sure b+e states a 3500kg limit.
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Old 07 October 2013, 13:40   #48
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that all contradicts everything ive read and been told - by people whos job it is to know. me and a friend tried to hire a car trailer once to move a mini bodyshell - no weight at all, but because of the plated max weight of the trailer they refused to let us hire it as we didnt have b+e on our licences. also im pretty sure b+e states a 3500kg limit.
Whilst I don't know if he is right or not, he started by saying:

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When I write this it is with the assumption that everyone has the BE category on their licence.
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Old 07 October 2013, 15:47   #49
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Its a bollockin mine field .. I have to obey so many fekin rules from the eurocrats as well as our own it makes my blood boil As a an HGV operators licence owner its hard enough .. but the trailer regs are mad .. and theres the old 'for hire and reward' chestnut which changes it all again .. how in gods name are we supposed to keep up ? Its impossible ?

I have to say despite my clear evidence of plods intervention with my customer .. I share tehguy's view... as I said before I think plod dont understand it either

What is wrong with someone towing 'anything' thats within their vehicles capacity, regardless of what the plate says it can carry ? as long as its within the vehicle limit

or have I missed the point that non CE drivers now are in a slot between the average motorist and CE and LGV class 2 ?
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Old 07 October 2013, 16:01   #50
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i agree, and yes ive towed large, empty trailers behind small cars as i believe its fine and totally safe. i think the only reason they go off the plated weight is to avoid dragging everyone they stopped, off to the local weighbridge.
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