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Old 30 August 2008, 03:47   #21
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[QUOTE=Kernow;261656]
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Originally Posted by CJL View Post
Original UK built 585's are rated higher than the later UK and South African built ones. [/QUOT

Any idea when they changed? the one I've bought is a 95 or 96. Have to say it looks a lot of rib to be restricted to 120.
Was it involved in the Dunkirk evacuations?
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Old 30 August 2008, 17:32   #22
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[QUOTE=Kernow;261656]
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Original UK built 585's are rated higher than the later UK and South African built ones. [/QUOT

Any idea when they changed? the one I've bought is a 95 or 96. Have to say it looks a lot of rib to be restricted to 120.
You're probably OK with a 95-96 model. Do you not have a transom plate on yours?

PS - the year of build may be stamped backwards on the starboard bow just below where it meets the tubes.
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Old 01 September 2008, 04:45   #23
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So its a marine surveyor who is reponsible for determining the ultimate power capabilities of a hull ? He comes to your yard, ticks some boxes and gives you a plate (so to speak) to stick on the back ?
In a word - kind of!

He comes to the yard, fills out some forms on information we give him as to the layup and construction, goes away and does some lengthy calculations to decide if the boat can take the power structurally, then comes the fun bit, for Cat C you have drive the boat flat out and complete a 90 degree turn in so many metres - if you can't do this the boat doesn't fail, you just have to put a sticker by the helm saying something to the effect that you shouldn't do a 90 degree turn flat out! (I'm not kidding either!)

The point I'm making here is that there is no (that I am aware of) formula to decide the max power of a boat which just uses length and buoyancy etc - there is a lot more to it than that, and if you make the boat strong enough you're ok.
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When a boat looks that good who needs tubes!!!
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Old 01 September 2008, 04:47   #24
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Cookee,

Is there a dental disclaimer absolving B-Shark of any claims relating to loosening of fillings, eyeballs and any uncontrolled breasts that may endanger the craft or become a hazard to marine navigation!?
I think that's a great idea - it may take a while to work out the wording of that one though!
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When a boat looks that good who needs tubes!!!
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Old 01 September 2008, 06:04   #25
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The point I'm making here is that there is no (that I am aware of) formula to decide the max power of a boat which just uses length and buoyancy etc - there is a lot more to it than that, and if you make the boat strong enough you're ok.
http://www.maib.gov.uk/cms_resources/Abersoch%20RIB.pdf (p16)

and Annex F (which is in a separate document http://www.maib.gov.uk/cms_resources...IB_Annexes.pdf

but as said in the first link there are other ways to prove conformance rather than just using the calculation.
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Old 01 September 2008, 13:51   #26
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and Annex F (which is in a separate document http://www.maib.gov.uk/cms_resources...IB_Annexes.pdf

but as said in the first link there are other ways to prove conformance rather than just using the calculation.
Thats interesting .. The ISO standard calculation is in Kw, to convert to hp you multiply by 1.37, which for a certain failed 8.5m hull of mine works out at a maximum hp of 197hp using a 2m beam by 9m OAL and confirms that the 300 hp it was actually plated for was rather optimistic, if my calculations are correct
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Old 01 September 2008, 15:24   #27
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Thats interesting .. The ISO standard calculation is in Kw, to convert to hp you multiply by 1.37, which for a certain failed 8.5m hull of mine works out at a maximum hp of 197hp using a 2m beam by 9m OAL and confirms that the 300 hp it was actually plated for was rather optimistic, if my calculations are correct
But its not the only way to arrive at the number - and actually has no relevance to the failure you experienced, since transom design/construction aren't part of the equation just beam and length. So the calculation is presumably about handling for "any" hull shape of those sizes.
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Old 01 September 2008, 16:23   #28
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But its not the only way to arrive at the number - and actually has no relevance to the failure you experienced, since transom design/construction aren't part of the equation just beam and length. So the calculation is presumably about handling for "any" hull shape of those sizes.
I was aware of all of that, with due respect Polwart.. It was more of a 'prospective' post if you like, to garner opinion and validate the fact that there seems to be an open policy on what is a very important subject to me, which is linked with CJL's original post.

Hopefully through some investigation and posting of my own experiences, I can shed some light on a predicament others may avoid, as, it will surely hurt them in their pocket as it did me, so I am keen to follow the theory of exactly how a hull is calibrated to carry the horsepower that its plate determines, further.. why, as Cookee said,.. he will build a 7.5 that will handle 300HP and get certificated,.. quite rightly for it, as he says he will offer a 5YR Gtee for it, and confirm the build technique,.. but others build larger boats that will only handle a lot less power than their plate states?, who is controlling the plating certificates of these hulls ? I would like answers on this, as its costing consumers money, when they should not be left in the dark in such a fashion, without there being such an arbitary thing as 'ahh well that transom looks heavy enough,.. doesnt it ?' Now I know there are ISO standards, but as been seen what do they count for ?

Is it that ,when many competitors hulls of a similar size get rated for 300 hp that, without reasonable controls, some 'other' manufacturers just plate their hulls for the same power without getting properly tested .. just so they dont loose market share in that arena ?
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Old 01 September 2008, 17:13   #29
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who is controlling the plating certificates of these hulls ?
  • the manufacturer is responsible for controlling the plating/certificate, and ensuring they have the evidence required by the RCD to support their claims.
  • the trading standards for the area covering the manufacturer are responsible for enforcing the RCD.
  • the trading standard for Falkirk are responsible for ensuring that FYM sell product that is fit for purpose.
of course unless you are very lucky, trading standards will know nothing about boats!
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Old 01 September 2008, 17:33   #30
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  • the manufacturer is responsible for controlling the plating/certificate, and ensuring they have the evidence required by the RCD to support their claims.
Ok lets stop on point one .. I'm arguing that the manufacturer isn't coding their boats properly and who is to stop them ? There are no controls over what they stick on their hulls.. period... as its arbitrary by many accounts

When they get a CE mark.. it still is no qualitative measure on what the construction methods or the build quality of the hull are.. so why have it ??

And what is more frustrating, is.. how some retailers use it as a sales tool when plainly it isn't worth a monkeys !! that is a market con and it should be stopped !!
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