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Old 09 June 2006, 13:03   #1
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To anyone who has built their own Jockeyseat.

Hello, I am planning to build a jockey console (single seater) and have built a mould out of wood and am ready to Rock & Roll!

My question: How thick should the fibreglass end up? is 5-7MM sufficient?
What way would i layer it?

Base -> Wax -> Resin -> Chopped Strand -> Resin -> Woven -> Resin -> Chopped Strand -> Resin -> Woven -> Resin -> Chopped Strand -> Resin -> Woven -> Smooth (Gel) Coat

Also what grade of Fibreglass? 450g/M or 600g/M?

Thanks,
Daniel
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Old 09 June 2006, 13:22   #2
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Surely the gel coat goes on after the wax ????
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Old 09 June 2006, 13:30   #3
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Err, I am building it up on top of the wood, and there's not much point in having a smooth finish on the inside, I was more or less hoping that I could roll the gelcoat on the top and make it semi smoothish (Compared to normal resin on top of a Matt.
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Old 09 June 2006, 14:14   #4
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so where does the wax come in to it?
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Old 09 June 2006, 15:03   #5
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Jockey seat

Oh, your are planning to use a male mould/plug not a female. Smooth on the inside? Yes, Yes, Yes. otherwise you will not be able to remove the moulding. Must be a macho thing. Problem will male moulds is removing the Plug/pattern, so make sure you build in plently of draft angle, at least 5-8 degrees and have some method of getting the component off the plug. Make sure the plug is sanded very smooth and varnished or similar; it should shine like you car???. Make sure you use a lot of release agent ( wax, multiple coats, and let it harden and then polish it before starting the lay up. ( it is called a plug for obvious reasons) If you can make the plug in a manner that it can be disassembled from the inside ie. with screws then life gets a whole lot easier.
Hope this helps.
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Old 09 June 2006, 15:46   #6
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Indeed Wax is release agent, It is already varnished, and all surfaces are sloped away from the bottom (I.e. the wide bit) so it *should* pop off with a bit of TLC.

This still leaves my original question

p.s. I have heard stories of drilling little holes after the Resin has set, and blowing compressed air into it, this should help release it!
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Old 09 June 2006, 16:17   #7
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you have gone to the time to build a male mould. is there a reason why you didn't build a female mould and you would of had a smooth(ish) finish on the outside.
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Old 09 June 2006, 16:39   #8
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5mm will be more than enough and just use csm. Woven fabrics give their strength along the weave. They have good tensile strength but it's directional. You want strength in all directions. Use the 450gm csm (also known as 1oz), it wets out much more easily and this is an advantage for your first attempt at laminating. If you are planning on finishing with gel coat, mix it 50-50 with normal layup resin and apply it with a roller. You must add wax to the gel to prevent it being sticky otherwise the surface in contact with the air will not harden. This is wax dissolved in styrene, not wax polish. You can buy flocoat specifically for this finishing process and you won't then need the gel. If it were me and I lived down the Ardnamuruchan road, I'd buy a bit more of everything and then it would be in stock for the next project. A few days ago, in his thread, Slimtim showed the type of finish you will get.

When dealing with the csm, tear it rather than cut it with scissors. This will give you soft edges because hard edges will be seen in the finished product. Tearing csm neatly is a learned skill and an easy and effective method is to lay a panel saw on top of the csm and tear it upward along the toothed edge of the saw. Easy.

Good luck and don't forget to catalyze the resin!

Mr d, it occurs to me that if you've taken the trouble to make a reasonable quality mould, it may be worth using it as a plug to take a mould from and then you would have the ability to easily make more consoles in the future.
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Old 09 June 2006, 16:41   #9
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You need to finish with 2 layers of CSM under the gel coat or you will get print thru of the woven roving.
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Old 09 June 2006, 17:01   #10
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Thanks for your replies,

So don't use woven roving at all, and just use Cut Strand Mat (450g)
I take it that 1 layer of CMS/Resin is about 1MM thick when set. so say 6 layers.
Flow-coat for the final finish.

If i chose to use the first version as a mould i should ideally use gelcoat right at the start for the first layer.

The reason i made a male mould is because i knew what i wanted the console to look like, and test sizes as i went along to see if it would suit, and modify if it did not. Constructing a female mould would have been a lot more complicated for me to do. And this is the first time i am trying something like this.

OceanEco, with CSM do you mean fine tissue? Even if i decide not to use woven roving, will i still need two layers of something finer than 450g?

Thanks,
Daniel.
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Old 09 June 2006, 17:37   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr-d
So don't use woven roving at all, and just use Cut Strand Mat (450g)
Chopped Strand Mat, yes.
Quote:
I take it that 1 layer of CMS/Resin is about 1MM thick when set. so say 6 layers.
Varies with your technique. I usually work on about mm per layer. For your first attempts, err on the side of too much resin. That's certainly preferable to too dry a laminate
Using the technique you proposed, you need to ensure a very even layer all over or the result will be an uneven surface because of the varying thickness. This is difficult to achieve. If you take a mould off your plug (your mould), when you make your consol, you can use varying thickness in the laminate to strengthen various areas. For instance, I would use 3-4 layers for the sides but reinforce the corners with a couple more layers and the face which carries the steering wheel will need to be thicker still and/or reinforced to brace the helm mounting area. The steering wheel becomes your main hold on the boat when underway. The mounting flange for the deck will need to be much thicker and, preferably, feathered out into the laminate so as not to produce a high stress area.

Quote:
If i chose to use the first version as a mould i should ideally use gelcoat right at the start for the first layer.
After polishing it with the wax. I know laminators don't like it, but I'd also use a layer of release pva on top of the wax on a less than perfect surface to ensure a good release. Do this too on the first pull from the mould, especially if you are in a bit of a hurry and the mould may not be fully cured.

Quote:
Even if i decide not to use woven roving, will i still need two layers of something finer than 450g?
No, it'll be fine. If you were trying to produce the finest of work, you may want to put tissue onto the gel and then back that with 1oz csm but that's overkill for the type of job you are producing.
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Old 09 June 2006, 18:24   #12
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step by step guide

Hysucat jocky seat project
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WHEN THE CAT IS AWAY THE MICE GO TO REDBAY..............
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Old 09 June 2006, 19:06   #13
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I've just been talking to my dad (who built a boat 30 years ago) and he says that i need woven roving, as it will add more strength for weight than CSM, the CSM only to be used for final layers and inbetween the layers of Woven.
I just started working out the cost of the material needed, and its pretty scary!

9.5M 450g CSM -15.00
5M 600g Woven -18.00
2.5L Gel Coat - 15.00
20L Resin - 65.00
Release Wax - 15.00
Implements - 20.00
--------
Total 148.00

And that's WITHOUT postage!

I need 18827cm for each layer, so that's 1.89m so say 2m
Decided to go for 4 layers of CSM and 2 layers of Woven.
2.5KG Resin to 1KG Fibre.

p.s. Prices obtained on ebay, anyone know anywhere cheaper?
*EDIT* CFS Fibreglass works out at around the same.
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Old 10 June 2006, 04:06   #14
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Old 10 June 2006, 04:26   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr-d
I've just been talking to my dad (who built a boat 30 years ago) and he says that i need woven roving,
No, you don't. It does give improved tensile strength but only in the direction of the weave. It also doesn't give bulk and rigidity. You can use it if you want but you will be giving yourself more expense and difficulty than you need to. You will also be surprised how strong a 4-5mm csm laminate is. After it's cured, it will easily stand the impact of a large hammer.

One thing which did occur to me, you mentioned a varnish finish on your mould. What type of varnish have you used because the styrene in the resin may well attack it?

Finally, if your dad knows how to do this, why are you asking us?
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Old 10 June 2006, 06:51   #16
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Jwalker,
According to my dad the woven material is interwoven, and has strength in every direction (see attached picture). The weave is the same for lengthways or top to bottom.

at varnish, it never occured to me! It is that long ago that i can't remember I hope that the wax will cover this and protect it.

Don't get me wrong, I know that my dad has used Fibreglass before, but it is that long ago that he can't remember (30 years). I'd rather have an opinion of people who have also done this, so I can be sure. I really appreciate your input!
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Old 10 June 2006, 19:08   #17
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Don't bother with the woven rovings for a jockey seat. It will be bulky and more difficult to work with than csm and unnecessary for this project. Take a look at jockey seats produced by professional RIB laminators.
Three (or four if you're keen) well laid-up layers of 450 csm should produce a very good product.
I would recommend making a female mould from melamine faced chipboard, with radiused plasticine to 'round-off' the edges. This will give a much better finish than a male plug with flowcoat around the outside.
Good luck - let us know how you get on and post some pics of your handywork.
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Old 11 June 2006, 04:54   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Downhilldai
Don't bother with the woven rovings for a jockey seat. It will be bulky and more difficult to work with than csm and unnecessary for this project. Take a look at jockey seats produced by professional RIB laminators.
Three (or four if you're keen) well laid-up layers of 450 csm should produce a very good product.
I would recommend making a female mould from melamine faced chipboard, with radiused plasticine to 'round-off' the edges. This will give a much better finish than a male plug with flowcoat around the outside.
Good luck - let us know how you get on and post some pics of your handywork.
A build of this type will also give excellent underwater properties.
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Old 11 June 2006, 05:12   #19
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