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Old 06 March 2003, 07:10   #1
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The Costs of Building RIBs

We know that RIBs are expensive.
So why?

An engine for a hardboat is the same engine as for a rib. So if ribsters are paying dearly for their rib engines then so are hardboaters.
The same must apply for electronics, fixtures and fittings, inside upholstery, chandlery etc.

So why such a big diference in price between a rib and an “equivalent” hardboat?

The tubes? At most these won’t add more than £9-10k to the price of a 10m boat.

It must be the volume of glassfibre hulls and consoles etc.in production at any one time and the “industrial” techniques used to build hardboats?
Or, is it that a rib has bigger and better cleats and fairleads than a hardboat and by the time you add it all up it makes a big diference?

Anyway.

Whilst musing on this subject, I cannot believe Manos’s estimate of the parts cost of a large rib.
Surely they are much higher?

Is it worth doing a simple Bill of Materials listing with prices and see what it comes to?

Manos, CH, DD and others-do you want to give us a starter for 10 for a bonus of 15?
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Old 06 March 2003, 11:54   #2
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Re: The Costs of Building RIBs

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Originally posted by Brian
It must be the volume of glassfibre hulls and consoles etc.in production at any one time and the “industrial” techniques used to build hardboats?

Or, is it that a rib has bigger and better cleats and fairleads than a hardboat and by the time you add it all up it makes a big diference?

What exactly are the "industrial" techniques, and why would a rib need better cleats and fairleads?
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Old 06 March 2003, 12:24   #3
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Dont forget to add in

the realities

most UK rib companies it would be fair to say are fairly small, ie not corporates, some almost cottage industries ? Building ribs as straight forward as the hulls would appear to be is labour intensive because of the tube process ?

The prices simply need to reflect cost of overheads and labour / production costs which will not be efficient in a small firm

Probably explains why the larger / more efficient production from firms such as Valiant can afford to either produce a cheaper priced product or retain a larger profit margin.

Where I do get a bee in my bonnet is why for example a Honda 90 HP 4 stroke costs about 7K, why ? It can be mass produced and you could buy a new small car for this price with far more components and equal technology.

Why does a 150 HP cost so much more, when essentially it is the same as a smaller model with larger cylinders ?

Cant see any reason given the quantities of outboards produced why they cant be cheaper , other than the market seems to accept paying these prices ?
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Old 06 March 2003, 15:38   #4
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Easy, they're greedy.
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Old 06 March 2003, 17:05   #5
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The price tag of ANYTHING, not just rib's, or hardboats, is set purely by how much people will pay! brians estimate of the cost of a tube is way out, 8-10 metre rib = tube cost trade, approx 4-5k
Far less glass fibre than equivalent hardboat, usually no cabin!!!.

example 1: revenger 29, single yanmar 300 B1 = 60k ish ridiculous!!!!!!!!!!!!!

example 2: Extreme 26 (similar hull length+tube) yanmar 300 B1, complete with internal cabin, stacks of upholstery, stereo etc, = 40k ish!
like the revenger example, the extreme is a very well made, race proven construction, so it is a good comparison

It's all about trends and fashion (victims) and how much people WILL pay

SHOULD I DUCK TO AVOID BULLETS???????
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Old 06 March 2003, 17:58   #6
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Dont duck Jon

Cos you are right!

RIB manufacturers - the succesful ones at least charge what the market will bear. So if Revenger can find sufficient people willing to fork out £60k for a 29ft RIB then thats what they'll charge. The seem to be surviving so one assumes they are finding enough people to do so!

Similarly Scorpion - £150k+ for a 10m Cabin RIB? Well theyve sold at least 4 and appear to have orders for more so there are clearly folks out there with the means to pay for what is an undoubtedly good RIB, but probably a mediocre cabin cruiser. (in terms of accomodation and comfort) If I wanted to cruise in comfort and I had £150k I'd probably sacrifice a degree of seakeeping ability and buy a fairline/sunseeker/sealine etc instead!

Matiboy is also absolutely right. Most RIB manufacture in UK is very definately of the cottage industry type. Sadly the bespoke handbuilt nature of the product does not mean bespoke handbuilt levels of quality but thats another story. So comparing the price of a 20ft RIB and a 20ft mass produced Glastron, Fletcher etc etc just doesnt work. If you are building 5000 a year (Glastron say) vs 50-100 for a RIB then economies of scale have got to work in your favour havent they!

I agree with the prices of engines though. A New Yam 200 HPDI lists at £11k plus. You can buy a very good car for the same money! Big part of a price of a RIB isn't it?!

My pet hate is looking at a price list from a RIB supplier and their attempts to charge you £1500 for an A frame, £50 for bloody toestraps, £200 for nav lights etc etc. These so called extras which should be part of the package are a bloody rip off!

Alan
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Old 06 March 2003, 18:09   #7
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Big Buck's!

I apreciate the difference between a uk rib and a glastron (my brother bought a new 229 glastron a couple of years ago, built like an eggbox!) this is why I used the comparison of the low volume, british built and successfully raced Extreme sportsboat, they only build a half dozen or so each year and are very much "hand made" as are your average larger rib, over here anyway.
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Old 07 March 2003, 02:27   #8
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Re: Dont duck Jon

Quote:
Originally posted by Alan
...a bloody rip off!
Damn right, Alan. How about this for screwing your customers.

I ordered an on-board spares kit from the suppliers of my new Yanmar diesel, Cellar Marine, the acredited Barrus dealer round these parts.

It consisted of an oil filter, a fuel filter, an impeller, o-ring, and 3 belts. Total cost £238.83

The power steering belt alone cost a ridiculous £58.42
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Old 07 March 2003, 02:59   #9
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Never mind Mike, your trip to the mystical Orkney Islands in August will leave you in a state of calm and tranquility.

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Old 07 March 2003, 03:08   #10
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Another example

consoles / seating arrangements

why does a jockey seat comprising of a bit of fibreglass and some upholstery cost 400 / 500 / 600 +

attached pic costs 900 quid !

For that price I would at least want some fancy suspension device with it
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Old 07 March 2003, 06:27   #11
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matiboy,
Is that your Arimar I see for sale in 'Boats and Outboards'? - Are you going to buy another?
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Old 07 March 2003, 06:51   #12
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Re: Dont forget to add in

Quote:
Originally posted by matiboy
most UK rib companies it would be fair to say are fairly small, ie not corporates, some almost cottage industries ? Building ribs as straight forward as the hulls would appear to be is labour intensive because of the tube process ?
This statement applies to MOST OF THE OTHER RIB BUILDING companies ex Zodiac/Bombard etc. Most of the RIBs come out from a shed of what is called the 'business'.

I cannot believe that labour costs in the UK are that much higher than other European countries or that for RIBs built in the UK more glass fibre and gell coat is used or they are better than the best.

The truth of the matter is that for say a 10 mtr RIB that costs to buy in the UK over 100K the builder makes between 70-80K easy. So the builder needs to sell one boat per year to make a VERY GOOD leaving. (This is a VERY GOOD business!!!)

BELEVE ME it DOES NOT COST A LOT to build a RIB.

For a 10 mtr hypalon (ORCA) tubes are about 5K (and if they are made by PVC is 40% less) and @ £2.00 for the glass fibre/kg (say 2,000 kgs??) another 4K (say 5K with gell coat??) how much the rest costs??
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Old 07 March 2003, 06:57   #13
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Re: The Costs of Building RIBs

Quote:
Originally posted by Brian
Is it worth doing a simple Bill of Materials listing with prices and see what it comes to?
Manos, CH, DD and others-do you want to give us a starter for 10 for a bonus of 15?
I will put it together this weekend and I can tell you without getting trade prices with discounts, etc but just normal prices for an individual the trouth is that you will be PLEASANTLY SURPRISED!!
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Old 07 March 2003, 07:07   #14
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JF

Agree 100 million% with you. Prices of boats (particularly in the UK where you do not have the climate neither the beaches nor the proximity to islands etc) are REDICULUSLY expenssive!!

Is exactly what you all say 'bulders charge what the market will bare' and looking at the increasing number of boats in the UK, the market (unfortunately) does not complain and bares!!

WHY?????????
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Old 07 March 2003, 08:43   #15
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ARE YOU GETTING FLEASED????

As promissed the approximate costs for building a 10 mtr cabin RIB. These costs include labour. If any one has doubts they can produce their own for comparison.

Afterall I may be wrong!!

QTY.......DESCRIPTION.....UNIT.........TOTAL

1...........Hull..................4,950.00.....4,9 50.00
1...........Tubes...............5,250.00....5,250. 00
1...........Console............182.73.........182. 73
1...........Perspex screen....33.33..........33.33
1...........Grabrail.................47.67........ ..47.67
1...........GRP box with upholstered twin bucket seat ..143.60.... 143.60
1.........Set Bow seats......136.73........136.73
1.........Full width splashwell seat, upholstered.........88.87....88.87
1.........A-Frame roll/ski-bar......138.67.....138.67
1.........Hydraulic steering system complete Le Combe & Schmidt.......480.....480.00
1...........Set control cables heavy duty.....80.00.....80.00
2...........Deep cycle batteries, boxes & terminals......36.00....72.00
1...........Galvanized Trailer with lights, docking boards, winch, jockey...........695.67...........695.67
1..........Installation labour, materials & sundries.........133.33......133.33
1........Sunbed....30.00.......30.00
2........Waterproof 12V sockets (stainless steel)........11.33.....22.67
1........Set Navigation lights, port, starboard & stern.......33.33......33.33
1........6-Way waterproof switchpanel with LED indicators......31.67.....31.67
2........Marine spotlights (fixed) mounted on A-Frame........20.00........40.00
1...........Water-seperating drainable fuel filter & cartridge.........56.67........56.67
2........70-litre plastic Fuel cells, including guages & installation.......166.67........333.33
1.......Battery selector switch........10.00.........10.00
1.......Auxilliary motor mounting bracket.......36.67....36.67
2...........Danforth anchors, 15m chain each, 50m rope 12mm each...........65.00.........130.00
1...........Additional battery cable from stern to console.........40.00.........40.00
1...........Labour surcharge for additional equipment......50.00........50.00

Sub-Total 13,246.93
Add 10% 2,649.39
Total 15,896.32
VAT @ 17.5 2,781.86

TOTAL £18,678.18 FOR A 10 MTR CABNIN RIB WITHOUT ENGINES.
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Old 07 March 2003, 08:51   #16
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Where have you got these prices from?

A console, supplied and fitted for £180?
Upholstered twin bucket seat, on custom GRP box, supplied and fitted for under £150?
A trailer for a 10 metre boat for under £700?

Get real!

John
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Old 07 March 2003, 09:22   #17
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Hay Manos Are you answering your own posts?

When you say you agree 100 million % with you! are you talking about your own posts here, as you seem to be agreeing immedialtly after your own posts have been posted and appeared?

Its a bit confusing? But good fun
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Old 07 March 2003, 09:29   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by John Kennett
Get real!
JK I'm affraid I am VERY REAL!!!!

The trailer just costs £700. That is the actual cost not including profit margins. And the seats are also as cheap as that!!!

May be I forgot to mention that all costs quoted are ACTUAL COSTS without including profit margins which you should have to add on.

And the prices have been from VERY RELIABLE friends who work in various outlets.

I repeat again they advised me the ACTUAL COSTS to the factory not the selling price by the boat builders which includes profit margins.
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Old 07 March 2003, 09:30   #19
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CH

I was replying to JF not to my own post.
Did you see the heading of my post??
Poss not
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Old 07 March 2003, 09:36   #20
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The bottom line is here is that in the main Boat Builders dont like us enough to give us a boat for nothing, In fact they dislike customers that much that some of them charge very high prices becouse thats the price that they put on haveing to deal with us boat users.

They build boats for proffit ,or otherways you dont get one.Thats the way it is,So producing charts at supposed costs is a waste of time as nobodys is going to give you one at that price becouse thay dont like you enough.Its buisness.
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