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Old 09 March 2013, 15:39   #1
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Thank f***k for iphones

Took Pigs Ear out for a shakedown after stage 2 of the refurb. Teignmouth to Salcombe. Had a great lunch at the Ferry looking out over a sunny view of the Salcombe Estuary then as we headed back to Teignmouth hit thick fog... The Lowrance GPS antenna gave up and we were navigating with a Garmin Etrex and iPhone. It certainly makes you realise how dependant you are on Electronics in a rib. Even if we had paper charts a compass Is not much use without reference points. !!

iPad mini in a marine case with Navionics App is the plan going forwards.
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Old 09 March 2013, 18:13   #2
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It certainly makes you realise how dependant you are on Electronics in a rib. Even if we had paper charts a compass Is not much use without reference points. !!
People managed with compass and paper for a very long time before electonic navigation came along. It takes a leap of faith to rely on a log and compass but it should still get you home - although you might want to substantially reduce speed to do so.
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Old 09 March 2013, 18:13   #3
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Even if we had paper charts a compass Is not much use without reference points. !!
.
Its a wonder then how we navigated before electronics - lucky I quess


Damn - Poly beat me to it
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Old 09 March 2013, 19:21   #4
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Chris:

Out of curiosity, which Lowrance antenna do you have?

jky

Edit; Never mind, just saw your post in electronics.
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Old 09 March 2013, 20:35   #5
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Its a wonder then how we navigated before electronics - lucky I quess


Damn - Poly beat me to it
Still scary out there without reference points. I remember coming back fron IOM in dense fog, lost the others and only found my way by finding their wake.
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Old 10 March 2013, 00:52   #6
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The downside with new electronics/ plotters is that i believe some boaters use it as it would be a radar, they proceed in fog at speeds they would never had done with paper charts.....

I always carry old fashion paper charts in the boat but must admit it is so much more convenient to use the plotter.
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Old 10 March 2013, 01:35   #7
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People managed with compass and paper for a very long time before electonic navigation came along. It takes a leap of faith to rely on a log and compass but it should still get you home - although you might want to substantially reduce speed to do so.
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Its a wonder then how we navigated before electronics -
Keeping a rib on a constant compass bearing is not easy as we saw when we used the iphone and a handheld Garmin Etrex to keep an eye on the course. We were keeping our speed at a constant 15 knots but if we had relied upon just a compass and distance over time calcs then we would have been stuffed.

I think an ipad in a waterproof case as a back up is the bext solution. !
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Old 10 March 2013, 04:21   #8
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Fog is scary.
A permanently mounted compass and my old handheld Garmin 72 in the emergency kit is my backup in case the plotter fails in fog or not.

15kts in fog? I'd be going slow and keeping a good listening watch even if I had radar

Glad you got back OK.
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Old 10 March 2013, 04:26   #9
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Keeping a rib on a constant compass bearing is not easy as we saw when we used the iphone and a handheld Garmin Etrex to keep an eye on the course. We were keeping our speed at a constant 15 knots but if we had relied upon just a compass and distance over time calcs then we would have been stuffed.
Do you not have a proper compass on your console? Using GPS to determine heading is rubbish because it shows you is the average heading that you were on a moment ago - not where you are heading now. Steering a compass course is a skill (whether on a rib or any other boat) - it was covered in my PB2. There might be a "magnetic" compass in your phone too - but it will be heavily damped so I doubt its accurate / precise enough to navigate properly by.

How bad was the Vis? 15 knots still sounds quite fast if you can't see anything. How quick can you stop / avoid an obstacle?
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Old 10 March 2013, 04:35   #10
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People managed with compass and paper for a very long time before electonic navigation came along.
People like Sir Cloudesley Shovell for instance: Cloudesley Shovell - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 10 March 2013, 04:38   #11
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Not at all Nice mate!Especialy when doing a Coastal Run to Get home.After I had a scare I make sure to always carry a Fog Horn too! Unless you've experianced Thick Fog at Sea its hard to descibe!
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Old 10 March 2013, 04:55   #12
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As a general rule of thumb, you should proceed at a speed that will allow you to stop within your visibility range, i.e, if you can see 50M you should be able to stop well within 50 metres, AND sounding a fog signal of some sort

If you have a real pea souper, and cannot see anything, you need to be crawling along at minimum speed. Also when crawling along you will be able to hear so much better the sounds around you, waves breaking, fog signals etc.

Radar changes the equation somewhat, but still you should decide what is a safe speed, Rules of the road, # 6 is to do with safe speed, and #19 is navigating in fog.

I agree thick fog is scary to navigate in, just as driving is.

As said before, it takes a bit of faith in your own navigation skills, and the accuracy of your equipment to be able to do dead reckoning by compass, and log, but with practice you can do it. Steering by compass is an essential skill in my mind, and should be practiced by anyone with a craft, no matter the size, as you are likely to need it at some point
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Old 10 March 2013, 05:26   #13
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Took Pigs Ear out for a shakedown after stage 2 of the refurb. Teignmouth to Salcombe. Had a great lunch at the Ferry looking out over a sunny view of the Salcombe Estuary then as we headed back to Teignmouth hit thick fog... The Lowrance GPS antenna gave up and we were navigating with a Garmin Etrex and iPhone. It certainly makes you realise how dependant you are on Electronics in a rib. Even if we had paper charts a compass Is not much use without reference points. !!

iPad mini in a marine case with Navionics App is the plan going forwards.
Should have let me know you were coming! And there was I home alone, no wife, no dog and waiting for the rugby to start!
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Old 10 March 2013, 05:30   #14
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lost the others and only found my way by finding their wake.
Lucky I had given you a list of waypoints then, just in case...
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Old 10 March 2013, 05:45   #15
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We carry a Garmin Montana c/w Bluechart as a backup. I don't as a rule carry paper charts on the boat. If you are truly stuck in thick fog, charts are useless regardless of what the experts say (armchair or otherwise). What did we do before electronics? We hit f**cking rocks or each other and sank, that's what we did. That (and the U boats) would account for the 250 000 odd charted wrecks (all skippered by "proper seamen") around our coastline giving the best wreck diving in the world.
Unless you are keeping a meticulous log (yeah right) & know where you are & mark it every minute (on a 20knot+ RIB passage, give me strength) If it suddenly all goes dark grey you're fecked, anyone who thinks other wise is kidding themselves. Knowing you're lost is arguably safer than the bloke carrying charts who thinks he knows where he is.

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Old 10 March 2013, 05:45   #16
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It's scary stuff. There's a thread on here somewhere, where Roy Cruse, Bob Keeper and Myself got caught in thick fog coming back from Kynance to Mylor. We were so concerned about hitting anchored shipping in the Bay and Carrick Roads, we were comm'd back to Mylor by Falmouth Coastguard who had us and the ships on radar.
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Old 10 March 2013, 05:47   #17
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We carry a Garmin Montana c/w Bluechart as a backup. I don't as a rule carry paper charts on the boat. If you are truly stuck in thick fog, charts are useless regardless of what the experts say (armchair or otherwise). What did we do before electronics? We hit f**cking rocks & each other and sank, that's what we did. That (and the U boats) would account for the 250 000 odd charted wrecks (all skippered by "proper seamen") around our coastline giving the best wreck diving in the world.
Unless you are keeping a meticulous log (yeah right) & know where you are & mark it every minute (on a 20knot+ RIB passage, give me strength) If it suddenly all goes dark grey you're fecked, anyone who thinks other wise is kidding themselves. Knowing you're lost is arguably safer than the bloke carrying charts who thinks he knows where he is.

I'll get me coat
With you there 100% Mr Pike!
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Old 10 March 2013, 05:49   #18
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We carry a Garmin Montana c/w Bluechart as a backup. I don't as a rule carry paper charts on the boat. If you are truly stuck in thick fog, charts are useless regardless of what the experts say (armchair or otherwise). What did we do before electronics? We hit f**cking rocks & each other and sank, that's what we did. That (and the U boats) would account for the 250 000 odd charted wrecks (all skippered by "proper seamen") around our coastline giving the best wreck diving in the world.
Unless you are keeping a meticulous log (yeah right) & know where you are & mark it every minute (on a 20knot+ RIB passage, give me strength) If it suddenly all goes dark grey you're fecked, anyone who thinks other wise is kidding themselves. Knowing you're lost is arguably safer than the bloke carrying charts who thinks he knows where he is.

I'll get me coat
I'll go with that. We continued at such a speed, that if we hit anything, it wouldn't do any damage.
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Old 10 March 2013, 05:59   #19
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We carry a Garmin Montana c/w Bluechart as a backup. I don't as a rule carry paper charts on the boat. If you are truly stuck in thick fog, charts are useless regardless of what the experts say (armchair or otherwise). What did we do before electronics? We hit f**cking rocks & each other and sank, that's what we did. That (and the U boats) would account for the 250 000 odd charted wrecks (all skippered by "proper seamen") around our coastline giving the best wreck diving in the world.
Unless you are keeping a meticulous log (yeah right) & know where you are & mark it every minute (on a 20knot+ RIB passage, give me strength) If it suddenly all goes dark grey you're fecked, anyone who thinks other wise is kidding themselves. Knowing you're lost is arguably safer than the bloke carrying charts who thinks he knows where he is.

I'll get me coat
I have been sailing/Navigating at sea on large vessels for 28 years, and only in the last 10 years have we used electronic charts (and even today our primary means is STILL paper charts)
I guess we must have been lucky then
What did we do before GPS was invented (again not put on ships before about 1992, in my case)? I have never been aground in fog, or hit someone else in fog, or at any other time for that matter.

I have navigated using sextants, and a chronometer with a set of tables and calculator, and it can be done. you have to believe and have faith in what you do.

Interestingly very few wrecks are on the coast, the vast majority are more than 1 mile off shore, so that sort of means they didnt hit the rocks and sink in fog then......
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Old 10 March 2013, 06:00   #20
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I guess then that if you hit fog the best thing to do would be to drop anchor and sit it out .
Or is that the wrong thing to do.
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