Spongey Steering

[Mbryant]

Hi - having some problems with the hydraulic steering on my RIB.

Every now and again I had steering fluid leaking out of the seal behind the steering wheel, at first I though this was the rubber washer so replaced that but it still leaked (although a little less.) I had the steering checked over when the engine was in for a service but nothing came up. Though a month or so after I'm getting leakage.

So the question is......any idea what could be causing this and/or how can it be fixed??


Matt

[Top banana]

im having exactly the same problem. went to the boat and there was steering fluid running down the helm. put it down to the hot weather expanding the oil, or air in the system.
so i will be bleeding the system through this week. last time out i did notice the steering was stiff to port.

[Bigmuz7]

Last leaky one I had, it was coming out of the steering shaft going into the box, but it didnt make the system 'spongy', in hydraulics .. thats a sign of air in the system, or the wrong type of oil (less likely).. there is a bleed proceedure to expell all the air, most open circuit systems do it automatically, but I have learned that outboard systems need to be purged of air to work properly . It involves cycling the steering fully one way and draining the excess, then back the other and repeating the process, then topping up the reservoir.

If that doesnt work then either the helm pump isnt generating enough pressure or your steering ram is allowing oil to bypass in the steering cylinder meaning the actuating pump(helm) needs more revolutions to effect the same amount of steerage

[Mbryant]

Cheers Bigmuz, I'll try that out and hopfully it will solve the problem!!!

[RJH]

Originally Posted by Top banana

im having exactly the same problem. went to the boat and there was steering fluid running down the helm. put it down to the hot weather expanding the oil, or air in the system.
so i will be bleeding the system through this week. last time out i did notice the steering was stiff to port.

Likewise, am not impressed with the hydraulic steering on my boat. Spotted some minor leakage at the ram end and is being investigated but generally has always been very heavy. Have considered uprating to "power" steering bit am told it can make it too easy and can result in heavy wear on steering bolts conecting to the engine. How does one know if the hydraulic steering is operating correctly as have nothing to compare to?

[Mbryant]

The symptom I get is very loose steering - sometime 4 or 5 wheel turns from straight to full lock, you guys seem to be suffering from heavier steering though same leakage

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by RJH

Likewise, am not impressed with the hydraulic steering on my boat. Spotted some minor leakage at the ram end and is being investigated but generally has always been very heavy. Have considered uprating to "power" steering bit am told it can make it too easy and can result in heavy wear on steering bolts conecting to the engine. How does one know if the hydraulic steering is operating correctly as have nothing to compare to?

How many turns lock to lock is it?

Mine is about 6 turns - makes the steering fairly light but it's like turning a destroyer. You can get pumps which will give you say 4 turns but then it's a bit heavier. I would much rather have heavier but quicker steering.

I wish they would pay more attention to this on fast boats - it really lets the side down. The Alfas I have driven have been 2.2 turns - much more sporty!!!

[codprawn]

I have air in my system - about to bleed it. The steering is very "notchy" and jerky - I assume those are the symptoms with most makes.

The bleeding process needs lots of oil on mine - 2.5 litres. Basically you open a valve on the end of the ram - keep adding oil and spin the wheel pretty fast - it's a 3 man job.

[bedajim]

Originally Posted by codprawn

I have air in my system - about to bleed it. The steering is very "notchy" and jerky - I assume those are the symptoms with most makes.

The bleeding process needs lots of oil on mine - 2.5 litres. Basically you open a valve on the end of the ram - keep adding oil and spin the wheel pretty fast - it's a 3 man job.

What make of steering is it ?

[Pete7]

[QUOTE=Mbryant;So the question is......any idea what could be causing this and/or how can it be fixed?? Matt [/QUOTE]

It is leaking due to hot weather. Presumably your pump is black which will heat up nicely during the day and the oil then finds the weakest link in the system, in your case the seal behind the wheel,

Solution, never found one, just made sure the resevoir is full each morning. There was a nasty accident on Lough Lomond a couple of years ago caused because no one check the fluid level and the steering failed.

Pete

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by bedajim

What make of steering is it ?

Admiral Hydrive - just downloaded the instructions and that's the method they give.

[Mbryant]

Originally Posted by codprawn

just downloaded the instructions and that's the method they give.

Do you have the link for them?

[Bigmuz7]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Lough Lomond

wheres that then ?

[jyasaki]

Found this on the web somewhere: Applies to Seastar steering pumps, but may work for yours as well:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I have always bleed my steering system using the bleeder valve at the ram on the engine. I would do both upper and lower stations while continuing to fill the port with non-aerated oil... but my steering always seemed to be a little spongy and felt like it had air in it....

Well, a local tech showed me a tip that I had never seen before and I was a bit skeptical until I did it and saw it work... I will attempt to explain this the best I can..

Attach the fill plug fitting, hose and bottle(I use a empty and dry water bottle that has the same threads and cut the bottom off of) to the fill port on the helm. Fill with enough oil to fill the hose and a small amount of
the bottle.. you shouldn't need much.

Turn the wheel all the way to starboard, when the wheel stops, give it about a quarter turn to port and then go back all the way back to starboard(the ram should not move). Do this twice. You will see air bubbles start to shoot up the clear tube and exit the bottle... Now go all the way to port and repeat this... Continue to do each side with 2 to 3 quarter turns until no more air bubles come out the tube.

I'm not sure where these bubbles are coming from. But I could not get them out with the conventional bleeding using the bleed valves. This method builds up pressure in the lines and is forcing the air out of somewhere.

My steering is the smoothest and firmest it has been in 3 years.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<


jky

[Limey Linda]

Originally Posted by jyasaki

Found this on the web somewhere: Applies to Seastar steering pumps, but may work for yours as well:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I have always bleed my steering system using the bleeder valve at the ram on the engine. I would do both upper and lower stations while continuing to fill the port with non-aerated oil... but my steering always seemed to be a little spongy and felt like it had air in it....

Well, a local tech showed me a tip that I had never seen before and I was a bit skeptical until I did it and saw it work... I will attempt to explain this the best I can..

Attach the fill plug fitting, hose and bottle(I use a empty and dry water bottle that has the same threads and cut the bottom off of) to the fill port on the helm. Fill with enough oil to fill the hose and a small amount of
the bottle.. you shouldn't need much.

Turn the wheel all the way to starboard, when the wheel stops, give it about a quarter turn to port and then go back all the way back to starboard(the ram should not move). Do this twice. You will see air bubbles start to shoot up the clear tube and exit the bottle... Now go all the way to port and repeat this... Continue to do each side with 2 to 3 quarter turns until no more air bubles come out the tube.

I'm not sure where these bubbles are coming from. But I could not get them out with the conventional bleeding using the bleed valves. This method builds up pressure in the lines and is forcing the air out of somewhere.

My steering is the smoothest and firmest it has been in 3 years.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<


jky

Have used a similar tip from my Mechanic. Except he suggested attaching a lenght of tubing to the helm port and then to the bottle and suspend at least 3 ft. above helm. Go through procedure you described and then leave over night and repeat. Works great.

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by Mbryant

Do you have the link for them?

http://www.hydrive.com.au/site/product-ah.html

The admiral helm is the most common.

[willk]

Originally Posted by codprawn

I have air in my system - about to bleed it. The steering is very "notchy" and jerky - I assume those are the symptoms with most makes.

The bleeding process needs lots of oil on mine - 2.5 litres. Basically you open a valve on the end of the ram - keep adding oil and spin the wheel pretty fast - it's a 3 man job.

CP, I've just had a similar symptom appear on a SeaStar system - fine steering to starboard, notchy and stiff to port. Did the bleeding and refilling sort you out? Any useful advice on the refilling?

[codprawn]

Well mine was like that both ways.

Yes it did cure it - basically you get someone to spin the wheel - someone else to open and close the bleeders - and someone to keep topping the oil up - admiral instructions were pretty good.

I bet there is an easier way but as it was my first time thought I would do it properly.

[willk]

Originally Posted by codprawn

I bet there is an easier way but as it was my first time thought I would do it properly.

Thanks - will check it out!

[jyasaki]

Originally Posted by codprawn

I have air in my system - about to bleed it. The steering is very "notchy" and jerky - I assume those are the symptoms with most makes.

The bleeding process needs lots of oil on mine - 2.5 litres. Basically you open a valve on the end of the ram - keep adding oil and spin the wheel pretty fast - it's a 3 man job.

I just bled my Seastar system. In my case, I had been using Automatic Transmission Fluid, and wanted to get back to regular hydraulic oil. Noticed afterwards that there are a couple of leak points: one at the helm shaft, and one end of the steering ram. Unfortunately, the hydraulic seals were on order at the time, so will have to do the procedure again soon.

I made up an adaptor to sit above the filler hole on the helm, and plumbed that into a plastic pitcher I used to enlarge the reservoir. A piece of tubing off the bleed valve at the ram went into another pitcher to hold the purged oil.

Spun the wheel one way, opened the bleed fitting on the extended ram side, and started turning the other way. After about a pint of fluid bled out, bubbles stopped appearing at the bleed, and I found that by gently slowing the wheel turn, the bubbles would not be sucked back into the ram, which gave me time to close the bleed valve. Repeated the procedure on the other side; went pretty smoothly.

Then, on a tip from someone else (found on some obscure boating forum), with both bleed screws closed, I turned the wheel all the way to one side, then the other way for a half to a full turn of the wheel, and back to the stop. Repeating this several times got a lot of smallish bubbles out of the helm (no idea where the air came from.) Repeated this turning the wheel the other way, and got more air out. All in all, it took about a half hour of working the wheel near-lock at either side to get the bubbles to stop appearing.

Steering was quite smooth and responsive afterwards (though it didn't lighten up as much as I anticipated it would.)

Sometime soon, I'll replace the helm shaft seal and the ram end seals, and hopefully that will take care of the leaks I've got. We'll see...

jky