Speeding and the law - Page 2

Searider · 02 May 2006, 13:54

A boat that is "just on the plane" kicks up a great wash. Less than "not quite on the plane" i'll agree but still a big enough wave.

Travelling at higher speeds the wake height does reduce but it is travelling much faster and can still cause violent motion on a moored vessel.

So, at 6 knots, your wake is small enough and you are being considerate to others.

At 10 knots "Not quite on the plane" its massive.

At 12 knots "just on the plane" a little less but still probably a couple of feet.

At 40+ knots its not very high but travelling fast and has a lot of energy in it.

So, consideration for other users is what is required.

And, before I come across as holier than thou - I have been stopped for speeding once or twice.

Cheers

PeterR · 02 May 2006, 18:14

Hello Alan,It wasnt about the river Colne entrance I do beleive the harbour master has a speed gun though It was just in general being on the water you see yacts sails up do in the river Orwell doing well over 6 knots motor Cruisers as well.I wanted to know what the law was and peoples veiws and experiences and so far the thread has been very helpfull and nice that it has so please keep on posting.I agree we need to be safe and considerate on the water and these rules have been made for often good reasons .This thread has helped me understand some obviuos things and hope will help others

Bluestreak · 03 May 2006, 14:54

I was a Coxswain (and maybe again) of a Harbour Patrol RIB. All i needed to pull someone for speeding etc was my eyes and that of my crewman. We can happily take a person to court and prosecute with just that. If it is that serious then we would get a independent witness as well.

That said we have all done 6K in a 5K area, of course. But for enclosed Harbours (& i imagine rivers(though i have no experience) it is more of a wake and general awareness consideration. So if you are making a big wake at 5K perhaps 2K would be more appropriate than trying to Plane?
As someone has already said there is an entire ocean to 'speed' providing it can be deemed 'safe navigation'.

Plus there are several other reasons for speed limited areas like Swimming Areas etc!
Have Fun & Stay Safe!

Biggles · 03 May 2006, 16:42

Just adding to this post i would like to add my experiences with Harbour Masters and other boat users.

It would seem to me that the most hated craft on the sea is the Jetski. Not all Jetski owners are idiots but they don't half get persuecuted. Thats from a non Jetski user looking on.

Secondly I get the feeling that small RIB owners are the nest easy target for Harbour Masters. I have been pulled over doing 2 knots above the speed limit in Chichester harbour by the Harbour Masters launch because I was on the plane. Whilst sitting there listening to the lecture I have witnessed Motor Cruisers and fishing boats going past at the same speed as me or higher and they have been totally ignored. I personally am getting very hacked off with the Chichester harbour master. What I do now is tag in behind a large motor cruiser doing 12 Knots + and I get left alone.

I get the feeling that the Harbour masters representatives don't have any proper training or real authority.

Can the previous thread poster tell me if they have to follow the law the same as for issuing a road speeding ticket. IE, do they have to issue a notice of intended prosecution within 14 days for any further proceedings to be lawful.

Also are the speed guns calibrated and does the fact that the operator is on a moving craft effect the readings. Also does the operator have to be qualified to use the speedgun and are they usually correctly calibrated and in date or just used as a deterent.

Maybe the last two paragraphs explain why I only get a telling off for speeding slightly.

Don't get me wrong, it is wrong to speed, but its also wrong and probably an abuse of power to only pick on a minority. IE, Jetskis and small RIBs, but not yachts, motor cruisers and fishing boats.

Matt · 03 May 2006, 16:45

It always pisses me off when you see the safety boats for the rowers going past Drivers Wharf, marginally on the plane and therefore making loads of wash, but if we do the same to them they get the right hump!

Carl · 03 May 2006, 17:07

the thing thats really pisses me off is those sailing dingys racing in chichester harbour. they must get up to 20 knots,and aim straight for you. mind you the commitee boat hates it when you give them the same back

Bluestreak · 03 May 2006, 17:09

I can't vouch for Harbour Masters everywhere but we don't use Guns or any gadgets at all. Just our eyes and common sense. Plus as a Personal Watercraft Owner and Instructor i can say i have never felt persecuted. The majority of offenders are large (30ft+) motorboats and little Fletcher's. We have over 1000 registered PW's and hardly every have a problem with them. When we do it is just ignorance rather than outright rule breaking.

Here you will get a friendly verbal warning and a leaflet with all relevant by-laws on. Then the same offender will get a written warning if found to be committing another offense. (99.9% of the time that is it). Another 2 written warnings over the summer and then we will take you to court, fine you and ban you (not your vessel) for life from our waters. If you have a Marina mooring then that really is sad....

A Harbour just down from us issues you with a £60 fine straight away that just gets bigger the more you are caught...

I think the way we do it is great and it works. We have a very visual boat and i think that helps, as most people see us and behave. + the main reason for our speed limits is for swimmers and i think most people see and respect that as a good reason for 5K.

Biggles, i am sorry i don't know the answer to your question. Also i do my job to keep kids and families safe whilst swimming and enjoying our beautiful coast not to victimize people.

Matt · 03 May 2006, 17:14

IMVHO it's just about having a bit of respect, both ways.
The law is a backup to catch people who don't have any.

Bluestreak · 03 May 2006, 17:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadMat

IMVHO it's just about having a bit of respect, both ways.
The law is a backup to catch people who don't have any.

codprawn · 03 May 2006, 17:36

Coming out of Swansea you are supposed to stick to 4kts until clear of the River. 95% of people seem to stick to this even though there would be no harm in doing 60kts if there is nobody around.

Everyone that is except "officials" - customs - fisheries protection officers etc etc in their RIBs - they obviously don't feel the law applies to them. No doubt OF they were caught they would just shelter behind their organisation and say they need more training or they will revise their practice!!!

Alice · 03 May 2006, 18:15

I have done a fair bit of sailing in my time and been in the company of sailing folk often and I would say that in the hierarchy of motor boats as seen by yachties, Ribs are probably fairly high up. Maybe just behind fishing boats and commercial craft. On the whole Rib owners are a pretty sensible bunch. The guys at the bottom are the 'Fletcher' type speedboat owners and Jetskis and I probably agree that the poor reputation that Jetskis have is largely undeserved. I will add that I've seen some pretty shocking antics carried out by some Gin Palace owners, usually the sub £100k type that inexperienced tosspots can afford.

I may have mentioned this before, but one of the biggest cock-ups I ever saw was Steve (Phil Mitchell) McFadden trying to launch a Sib with his daughter and girlfiend at the time ( Lisa from Eastenders) in it. The thing ended level with the transom, full of sea water!

Matt · 03 May 2006, 19:09

edit: can't be arsed.

PeterR · 03 May 2006, 19:15

On a lighter note have you heard that one ...Why do women marry in white

TJ101 · 03 May 2006, 19:21

all domestic appliances comes in white

BogMonster · 03 May 2006, 19:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by TJ101

all domestic appliances comes in white

Biggles · 03 May 2006, 20:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by TJ101

all domestic appliances comes in white

Is that why domestic appliances are called white goods.

PeterR · 03 May 2006, 22:11

The answer.....So she blends in with the fridge ,,freezer ,,dishwasher

willfinch36 · 23 March 2009, 13:05

I know this is an old thread.. but yeah...

I don't know its a bit like people with fast cars on the road , why would get a fast car and not break the speed limit? or accelerate hard? personally I love my fast car and boat, however when im on the river or the road im not arrogant or bad mannered.

Where I launch from, the speed limit is 6 knots on the river, but if i didnt want to break the speed limit, im up for having fun as long as its not indangering other people as well as myself. For example if I see a sailing boat I will get well out of its way. Also if I see small rowing boats or people climbing out of their tenders then i will slow down so there is no wash at all - 4 knots.

But if i do 6 knots and stick to the speed limit thats the maxium biggest wash I can make, so as well as bobbing everyone up and down I would also be eroding all the shore and destorying all the birds nests lol.

Or at max speed im just burning more fuel polluting the river... and not destroying the wildlife habitat!

However, ever since I was about 6 ( im now only 19)! I've never been told off for being dangerous or anything like that and im on the river every weekend in something thats capable of more of the speed limit.

bedajim · 23 March 2009, 13:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by willfinch36

I know this is an old thread.. but yeah...

I don't know its a bit like people with fast cars on the road , why would get a fast car and not break the speed limit? or accelerate hard? personally I love my fast car and boat, however when im on the river or the road im not arrogant or bad mannered.

Where I launch from, the speed limit is 6 knots on the river, but if i didnt want to break the speed limit, im up for having fun as long as its not indangering other people as well as myself. For example if I see a sailing boat I will get well out of its way. Also if I see small rowing boats or people climbing out of their tenders then i will slow down so there is no wash at all - 4 knots.

But if i do 6 knots and stick to the speed limit thats the maxium biggest wash I can make, so as well as bobbing everyone up and down I would also be eroding all the shore and destorying all the birds nests lol.

Or at max speed im just burning more fuel polluting the river... and not destroying the wildlife habitat!

However, ever since I was about 6 ( im now only 19)! I've never been told off for being dangerous or anything like that and im on the river every weekend in something thats capable of more of the speed limit.

I think you’ll find the idea is you proceed at a speed under six knots that minimises your wash etc, which from your post is about 4 knots max

I use this time to get the crew to make sure fenders, ropes, kit bags, bucket etc are stowed or secure before we blast off when out of the limits and if its safe. Then on the return they get ready for recovering the boat, fenders out etc, but I'm a boring old git

Jim

SDGANDER · 23 March 2009, 13:59

What about this scenario then..

Tidal flow in the river approx 5 kts. Minimum speed for steerage 3 kts. Harbour/river speed limit 5 kts. My SOG is 8 kts by radar gun, my/your GPS... I' m now speeding you going to prosecute me?

As an ex-'enforcement' officer 2 peoples word against the defendant in court is a very risky case.Was your log calibrated? What distance did you measure them over? Do you have recorded electronic evidence to play back in court? Did you ensure the continuity of the evidence? Was the log/GPS immediatetly removed from use to present as evidence? Were they cautioned in accordance with PACE? Shall I carry on?

SDG