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Old 14 September 2004, 16:44   #1
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So Manos...........

You're selling the Falcon's or three out of the six at least?
You're buying a Scorpion?

I think I've said this before but can you say Damoscene conversion?!
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Old 14 September 2004, 17:46   #2
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Alan I'm keeping the 700RSR is a great little boat.

The SCORPION is GREATER though (like the Yamaha cheef eng here in Greece says is the FERRARI of the sea) and yes I'll be buying the 8mtr (2nd hand of course) this weekend

The 640SRs will change for bigger 7.8 Ballistics or RIB EYES depending.

PS what Damoscene means?
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Old 14 September 2004, 17:55   #3
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"Damascene conversion" its yer biblical stuff innit - St Paul on the road to Damascus etc etc. Commonly used phrase to indicate someone who has changed their point of view from and is now "evangelical" on something they previously rubbished.

So once upon a time, Scorpions were "big ripoff", South Africa was the only place to buy RIB's and Falcons where in fact the best thing since sliced bread. Now you've experienced crap build quality from South Africa, you're selling your Falcons and you're buying a Scorpion.

An expensive learning curve, but credit for going through it so publically!
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Old 14 September 2004, 17:59   #4
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Alan never said that they wer bad boats. They are excellent boats but they are overpriced so is Rolls Royse and Ferrari and McLaren.
And I still think that the SCORPIONS are a rip off and would never had paid 80K Euro that they ask here for an 8mtr fully equipped and with trailer with a 250 on brand new. The price is a lot lot less and the boat is just 3 1/2 years old. I know it since new have sailed it and is spotless. So I went for it and my bank mager feels very happy and my wallet lighter
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Old 15 September 2004, 01:59   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan
Now you've experienced crap build quality from South Africa,
ALAN..... WASH YOUR MOUTH OUT WITH SOAP!!!

Kim
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Old 15 September 2004, 02:19   #6
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Zebedee loves South Africa... sunshine and playing in the waves...

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Old 15 September 2004, 02:59   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan
Now you've experienced crap build quality from South Africa, you're selling your Falcons and you're buying a Scorpion.
Alan in all seriousness the Falcons as well as the Geminis (I cannot speak for the rest of the makes in SA as I do not have any experience on those) are very well built boats. In different ways FALCONS and GEMINIS.
GEMINIS are heavy with deeper Vs than the FALCONS. They sail well but they give a wet rides if you go out in force 6 and above. Apart from that there is nothing wrong with those boats. My 5mtr GEMINI had it for 17 years, sold it 2 years ago and the chap who's got it says is the best RIB he ever had and done no repairs to it.
With the FALCONS we have noticed that the built quality is not the problem what so ever. The boats are built to last, are light and you can use a small engine and less fuel to get top performance. However, the finish quality on SOME (not all) of the boats could be better.
Also the PVC material that they use we feel that is OK if you take the boat in and out of the water every time you use it and you keep it under cover. If however, you have it exposed on direct sunlight for more than 3 months at any one time, like we do in Greece, the PVC needs attention. Hence we need to make some tube repairs (not urgent) to the 700RSR I've got.
Both the GEMINIS and the FALCONS lack ample storage. A bit of SPARTAN designs. But people know this when they made the purchase and can't complain.

Now going to the SCORPION. GREAT BOAT, heavy and built with deep V. If you go near it and is out of the water looks like is a 10/15 mtr boat (looks like a ship in fact). Is made to sail long distances in most weather conditions and in comfort. The upholstery GREAT, the finish GREAT, the drivers seat not to my licking (hate standing up and high. I prefer do be nearer to the deck) but I suppose we can improve on that one and may be sell the pattern to SCORPION for $1,000,000 , storage is GREAT a huge hold. It must be over 1 mtr deep (it looks like a hold) forward an even huger hold aft plus all the little other storage areas and the electric fridge just in front of the consol which also doubles as a seat (you can move house on one of those boats).

If you now compare the quality of the SCORPION to my FALCON the SCORPION comes 1st with flying colours and there is NO comparison.

If you think about it, to buy a brand new 8mtr SCORPION fully geared you need 80K Euro which is the price of four 640SR FALCONS or three 700RSR. I do not know how much they sell the FALCONS in the UK but people should not pay much for them fully geared with trailer, cover, vhf, gps, and with engine for those.

The say that you get what you pay for fits here very well and I recon you get a good boat if you buy a FALCON for the money you pay for it
and
you get an EXCELLENT BOAT if you get a SCORPION but you need to pay as much as you pay for a house to get it. If people can afford it good luck to them
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Old 15 September 2004, 03:36   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manos
Alan in all seriousness the Falcons as well as the Geminis (I cannot speak for the rest of the makes in SA as I do not have any experience on those) are very well built boats..........



With the FALCONS we have noticed that the built quality is not the problem what so ever. The boats are built to last..........

Manos, I really can't keep up with you.. I thought the build quality WAS an issue in fact , here are some of your quotes..


“Just a 2 year old boat mind you and 130 hrs the PVC on the tubes has come apart on the starboard side aft on the seams with the cone, also a wear is starting to show forward on the inside too.”

“(and the FALCON Rep in Greece who is now worried a bit about the quality production of the factory) how badly this boat with the damage on it was made. No attention to detail which is something that we didn't expect from FALCON.”

“I can update you on nthe 700 RSR hull problem. T forward chine cracked and part of it came off. As a matter of fact the jell coat came off about 10-15 cm of it. It is my understanding that there were bubles (as there we bubles in my 700RSR) in the jell coat hence part of the chine coming off.”

“The boat is going to be repaired and there are fears that there may be other parts of the hull that have bubles in the jell coat.”

“The boat will be examined and aparently they can find out whether there are bubles in the jell coat and where. This is a brand new (4-5 months old max) 7mtr FALCON RIB. Also the deck of the same boat has developed hair line cracks. These cracks are all over the deck area”.

“…….and also bad craftsmanship on the PVC and bad wiring AGAIN (it was lucky didn't catch fire when four wires were all stuck together)!! Had to re-wire all the boats!!”

“very serious insident (one of the chines snaped!!) with one of the 700RSRs FALCON”

“700 RSR RIB excluding a few things such a few bubbles on the jell coat also excluding the PVC fabric problem and the bad wiring (re-wiring the lot next year)”

“The PVC as it has been glued from SA has been proven that it does not stand the wear of time”.




In the words of the imortal "Bucks Fizz" shouldn't you be "Making yer mind up" ?.....







.
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Old 15 September 2004, 05:20   #9
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Maybe Jono I didn't expressed my self correctly.

The built quality (meaning the finish quality rather than built) on some boats is very good and in some boats is not that good.

In fact we found that the quality of the boats is not consistent and varies quite a lot. Out of four 640SRs the finish quality on one is been very good, another one is been not so good and so on. Same with the gluing of the PVC.

My 700RSR is OK apart from a few small bubbles under the hull that we repaired and the tube getting unstuck on the cone thing on the Starboard side aft (that also is been repaired). Therefore as it shows some wear and tear inside forward I am thinking of changing it in a year or so with hypallon.

Now you will say that shouldn't have ever happened. NOT TO A 2 YEAR OLD BOAT with 130 hours on it. Well YES I AGREE.

The other 700RSR has jell coat bubble problems (10-15cm long) on the hull and huge hairline cracks on the deck. Now that is a PROBLEM.

All in all for a cheap and cheerful boat you can't expect to get anything more.

IMHO these are good cheap and cheerful RIBs that people can use. Our hired RIBs lasted this summer. OK the finish was not 100% but that did not compromise the built quality i.e. they are strong hulls whatever people say. People took them out in gale force winds and the boats lasted well. Also we have not found any bubbles on any of the hulls. Is just the gluing of the tubes and in one console there is no jell coat inside

What I said before is that YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR. And you can have fun if you don't pay much. Like Blue Nun wine compared with Cloudy Bay (NO COMPARISON really)
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Old 15 September 2004, 05:34   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willowkis
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan
Now you've experienced crap build quality from South Africa,
ALAN..... WASH YOUR MOUTH OUT WITH SOAP!!!

Kim
sometimes, the truth hurts but they are very pretty

OK alan that's the Falcon owners upset fancy having a go at Ribeye
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