Safety Equipement

[Poly]

Originally Posted by Pablo

What on earth are "Relevant Shapes" ?

The Collision Regulations require you to display certain shapes during the day in order to make it obvious to other vessels the "status" of your craft and thus help establish who is the stand on and give way vessel, or any specific/unusual behaviour that might be expected from your vessel. Combinations of lights are used at night to achieve the same.

On a small rib it is unlikely that anyone actually does this (I don't think that even the RNLI display the correct shape when towing?)

If you were really keen you might want a black ball (normally made from two black circles cut so they intersect each other at right angles - but packs flat) - to show when you are at anchor. But as you are less than 7m in length you are not required to show the shapes unless anchoring in a fairway, narrow channel or areas where other vessels normally manouvre.

[RichardB]

Originally Posted by Pablo

I've not mentioned VHF because I said all elements barring the electronics.
Is a fire extinguisher truely useful compared to a bucket of water ?
A tube repair kit or a clamp device as suggested by Ian. Possibly a good idea although i've never seen a RIBs tube become punctured enough to deflate completely.
Spare fuses are a good idea though.
Energy foods & water will be renewed for each trip. In France energy foods usually consist in baguette & dried sausages (i'm joking).
OK for the watch & mobile phone.
What on earth are "Relevant Shapes" ?
An Almanac, very good suggestion, here it's the Almanac du Marin Breton.
A Navigation Protractor, OK
Sunblock during the summer.
Multitool, already onboard.

@Blackroady the spare prop is already on the list.

I'll put up the updated list. I think there are a few redundent elements.

Sorry, missed your earlier comment on electronics!

Fair challenge on fire extinguisher. Can't say I have ever had cause to use one in anger on a boat. We have several on the yachts I sail (plus fireblanket) - these are mandated under offshore racing regs but we would carry anyway as downbelow you can get stuck with the fire between you and hatch and we have naked flames on the cookers etc. But on an open rib I can only think that petrol fires may react badly to having water chucked on. I was taught (years back) that this is a bad move. Then again attempting to deal with 50+ litres of burning petrol on a small rib sounds to me like a short loosing battle unless its from a very small leak.

Relevant shapes - I had to grin too - that will be your 'ball' for anchoring during the day etc! (Don't forget, you need at least three for those trying occasions when you run aground!!!)

I guess the clam clamp type thing would be best for punctures but again no direct experience of these (thankfully). However, Sod's Law would seem to dictate that whatever device you have, it will end up being too smalll / way too big for the problem tthat happens. But his sister Prudence suggests you take one anyway.

[Poly]

I would say a fire extinguisher is essential - realistically fire is the only reason you are going to completely abandon your rib. Capsize, catastrophic hull failure or collision might also end up with you in the water but presumably you would aim to stay with the striken vessel to aid being rescued. As others have said the type of fire you are likely to get on a rib (fuel or electrical) is not really suited to buckets of water.

[Nos4r2]

Originally Posted by RichardB

Then again attempting to deal with 50+ litres of burning petrol on a small rib sounds to me like a short loosing battle unless its from a very small leak.

Yep-you're unlikely to be trying to tackle a fire where your entire tank has gone up-first place I'd go is over the side (IF it didn't blow me over the side as it went up!). You're very unlikely to have this happen though unless you're filling up with fuel at the time. A fire at a broken fuel line,inside the console (electrics,battery,clothing etc....) or under the engine cowling is far more likely.

Bottom line is, a small fire extinguisher is cheap,easy to use and if mounted near the helm then quicker to get hold of than a bucket of water.

[ian parkes]

Originally Posted by Pablo

The newly updated list so far :
- flares
- a lifejacket per person onboard
- chart
- compass
- fog horn
- a waterproof torche
- anchor, chain & rope
- tow rope
- first aid kit including thermal/foil blanket
- screw driver, spark plug spanner, adjustable spanner, knife, pliers
- spare spark plugs
- spare batteries for my portable GPS
- spare pull cord
- spare kill cord
- duck tape
- paddles
- bailler / bucket
- spare prop & spanner
- inflation pump
- a horseshoe float
- a floating self righting flash light
- mirror
- spare fuses
- watch & mobile phone
- Almanac
- Navigation Protractor
- multitool

Are there any redundent items ? I have the impression i'm going to have to buy every object on ribshop's security items list and more !

I think some things on that list could be substituted for more compact items
ie horseshoe / life ring float. is a bit big and unwieldly on a small boat. A proper rescue throwbag is better imo.

A floating self righting flashlight , a handfull of lightsticks that could be tied to a lifejacket would be cheaper and more reliable.

Almanac and navigation protractor , how far off shore are you going . I find for coastal use an os map and walking compass would cover any navigation . and mark any relavent chart info on the map and chuck a tide table in the bag.

There are 2 safety kits there really one covering repairs and problems with the boat and another for survival without the boat.

Some items could go in A grab bag filled with a the basic items you could need if you find yourself leaving the boat in a hurry
My grab bag is a small dry bag clipped on the A frame or rail . Its something I always carried in my sea kayaking days with the chance I could end up on a shore and have to wait for help .

It contains

First aid kit
Foil blanket/s
map and compass
Small foghorn
Lighter and a few hexy blocks
Flares
Signal mirror
Knife
Torch
Spare batteries
Thin windproof and thermals
Bar of chocolate
Strapped to the dry bag or nearby are a pair of Flippers

I figure for most things that could happed along the coast there is enough there to swim to shore get warm and dry and summon help.
My Handheld VHF used to live on my Bouyancy aid but now it goes in that bag .

The other stuff on the list goes in a repair / tool kit exept flares and fire extinguisher .

[havener]

Originally Posted by Nos4r2

Yep-you're unlikely to be trying to tackle a fire where your entire tank has gone up-first place I'd go is over the side (IF it didn't blow me over the side as it went up!). You're very unlikely to have this happen though unless you're filling up with fuel at the time. A fire at a broken fuel line,inside the console (electrics,battery,clothing etc....) or under the engine cowling is far more likely.

Bottom line is, a small fire extinguisher is cheap,easy to use and if mounted near the helm then quicker to get hold of than a bucket of water.

Quite right, but for all those that have them - check the pressure gauge regularly and don't let the contents of a powder extinguisher "compact" - mount it carefully and shake it about every so often.

[Nasher]

Add Zip ties to the list.

I always carry a handful in the Spares/tool kit on my boat, as they are a great 'get you home' bodge for all sorts of things.

Nasher.

[Pablo]

OK, you've convinced me for the fire extinguisher. However, in order for me to go to bed less stupid, tell me what would happen if I threw a bucket of water over a petrol fire ? Chip pan oil & electricity fire I can understand but petrol ? Will it react like a chip pan fire ?

Good call for the zip ties, they're already on board infact.

Thanks Ian, like you say some of the items are redundent. I've not got much storage space. I'll produced an optimised list shortly.

The furthest i'll be planning on going is to Alderney leaving from Cherbourg or Sein. Both about 15 nm out. I'm most likely to lose eye contact with land. These are admittedly going to be one off trips and not regular ones.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by Pablo

Chip pan oil & electricity fire I can understand but petrol ? Will it react like a chip pan fire ?

Yes - pretty much the same as a chip pan.

[Nos4r2]

Originally Posted by Polwart

Yes - pretty much the same as a chip pan.

Either that or the burning fuel will simply float on the water.

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by Polwart

I would say a fire extinguisher is essential - realistically fire is the only reason you are going to completely abandon your rib. Capsize, catastrophic hull failure or collision might also end up with you in the water but presumably you would aim to stay with the striken vessel to aid being rescued. As others have said the type of fire you are likely to get on a rib (fuel or electrical) is not really suited to buckets of water.

What's wrong with using water on an electrical fire? We aren't talking 240v mains - it's only 12v!!!

[Nos4r2]

Originally Posted by codprawn

What's wrong with using water on an electrical fire? We aren't talking 240v mains - it's only 12v!!!

You'd be surprised how much of a jolt it feels like when you've got an electrolyte like salt water across +ve and -ve and your body in the circuit.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by codprawn

What's wrong with using water on an electrical fire? We aren't talking 240v mains - it's only 12v!!!

Firstly whilst the supply voltage is 12V the voltages inside your equipment can be much higher. Even if you think that is unlikely - then ignorging the electrocution risk for a moment - salt water is likely to short out equipment (as well as causing damage to equipment that might be salvagable). Putting salt water on live electrical equipment has the potential to cause a fire rather than extinguish it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polwart
Yes - pretty much the same as a chip pan.

Either that or the burning fuel will simply float on the water.

Nos - you are probably right - there are a number of effects which make chip pan fires particularly dramatic (i) all the oil is hot (so superheating the water into steam) (ii) it is usually deep but contained (which stops it spreading about as you described) (iii) they are normally indoors and thus the effects are particularly contained/alarming.

A petrol fire on a boat is presumably either a leak in the tank/pipework or at the engine. If the former adding water is likely to spread the fuel and therefore the problem.

But the initial effect of putting water on a petrol fire is an increase in the amount of flames. If you also spread the surface area of the fuel - that is going to be twice as bad.

[Nos4r2]

Originally Posted by Polwart

Nos - you are probably right - there are a number of effects which make chip pan fires particularly dramatic (i) all the oil is hot (so superheating the water into steam) (ii) it is usually deep but contained (which stops it spreading about as you described) (iii) they are normally indoors and thus the effects are particularly contained/alarming.

A petrol fire on a boat is presumably either a leak in the tank/pipework or at the engine. If the former adding water is likely to spread the fuel and therefore the problem.

But the initial effect of putting water on a petrol fire is an increase in the amount of flames. If you also spread the surface area of the fuel - that is going to be twice as bad.

I agree. What I should have said is that at best you might put it out-but what's more likely to happen is that you make no difference apart from delaying yourself using a more effective method of fighting it,and you could make it far worse.



I've been toying with the idea of bolting a cheap CO2 extinguisher to my outboard cowl so if it goes up under there I can just hit the button fill the cowl with non-combustible gas. It would give me a far better chance of going home without calling the lifeboat if I had an engine fire-after all, the last thing you should do is take the cowl off to fight a fire!

[RichardB]

Originally Posted by Nos4r2

I've been toying with the idea of bolting a cheap CO2 extinguisher to my outboard cowl so if it goes up under there I can just hit the button fill the cowl with non-combustible gas. It would give me a far better chance of going home without calling the lifeboat if I had an engine fire-after all, the last thing you should do is take the cowl off to fight a fire!

This is similar to the advice about fighting an engine fire on a car, which is to just crack open the bonnet a couple of inches max (i.e. not open the hood up) and inject the extinguisher through the crack and fully empty it.

Mind you, the dry powder normally used makes a hell of a mess - CO2,as you say, would be the neater choice!

[Dirk Diggler]

Where's Jono when you need him?

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by Polwart

Firstly whilst the supply voltage is 12V the voltages inside your equipment can be much higher. Even if you think that is unlikely - then ignorging the electrocution risk for a moment - salt water is likely to short out equipment (as well as causing damage to equipment that might be salvagable). Putting salt water on live electrical equipment has the potential to cause a fire rather than extinguish it!

Obviously salt water won't do your electrics any good - but neither does a fire. The problem with using CO2 to put out electrical fires is that the burning insulation often reignites as soon as the gas disperses.

If I had a fire in my console above the fuel tank I don't think I would worry too much about the damage salt water would cause.............

Bring back Halon!!!

[bedajim]

Not really a bit of safety kit but a fuel cut off valve, where you can get to it

[Poly]

Originally Posted by bedajim

Not really a bit of safety kit but a fuel cut off valve, where you can get to it

I suspect pablo is using portable fuel cans only (i.e. no fixed fuel tank) so could just disconnect the fuel line at the tank end - or do you think a cut off valve is still important in such a small set up?

[bedajim]

Originally Posted by Polwart

I suspect pablo is using portable fuel cans only (i.e. no fixed fuel tank) so could just disconnect the fuel line at the tank end - or do you think a cut off valve is still important in such a small set up?

Sorry I was being general, that would do the job to