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Old 13 October 2006, 05:25   #21
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I came across a similarly ill informed and chinese whispered argument from a Naval acquaintance the other day.
No, I can quote you exact instances - in recent years, this was done for Fire Service personnel when the FS suddenly realised the HSE/HMFSI might not like them letting crew operate the boats simply because they had "always done so". Although it was brought in as a sort of "grandfather rights" this was widely abused among some Services.

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Who is the authority for driving licenses? How many different driving licenses can you get? Answer: you can get one. However, you can take it at many different centres.
But that's the point! The licences are issued following certification at a centre credtited by the DSA (Driving Standards Agency) which is a Government body. But yes, of course, you can learn with many people, but those teaching you DO NOT conduct the exam.
So that's what I'm suggesting - an exam set by a Government body, i.e. MCA, with centres being examined by the MCA, but with a wide choice of methods of training, etc as long as the examined standard is met. End of RYA monopoly.


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If compulsory licensing for Leisure users comes in, would you like to see that subsidised by the MCA, or would you prefer that a private association administers the qualifications on their behalf?
The RYA's present stance is one of being against licencing, as a pressure group. As I have already said, I don't agree with their view, but I respect their right to express it. BUT, if they were, in effect, the licencing authority, then making public statements against licencing would be incompatable with their status as licencer...

In my view, the RYA can do a good job representing the views of some, even the majority, of boaters, but you CANNOT act as, in effect, a trade union whilst having the legal duty to administer schemes with which you have previously stated fundamental disagreement.


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Do you not think that the differing skillsets of instructors found in this huge variety of organisations authourised by the MCA can only promote better boating for their customers, as it is more relevant training?
Exactly. same as in the driving world - different range of instructors, but ONE SINGLE licencing standard and authority. But look at marine radio for example - a closed shop!

The RYA should either be a trainer or a licencer - but not both. And I'm not anti RYA - I'd say the same of ANY organisation allowed to train, examine and licence in one move.
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Old 13 October 2006, 10:01   #22
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Originally Posted by havener View Post
Not so long ago, the RYA were happy for "their" centres to allow people to do an RYA PB2 course Mon/Tue, then instructors course Wed > Fri, then certify them as instructors! So you had an instructor with nil experience teaching others....great idea!
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Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
I came across a similarly ill informed and chinese whispered argument from a Naval acquaintance the other day....

In order to become an RYA Powerboat Instructor, you have to have 5 years, or 1 year if it's part of your full time job using a powerboat. You then attend a 3 day course run by a powerboat trainer, and moderated by another, and if successful you may then teach powerboat levels 1 & 2. If you don't hold your level 2 before the course, but are an experienced powerboat cox'n, it is conceivable that you could do your level 2 by direct assessment before the course.
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Originally Posted by havener View Post
No, I can quote you exact instances - in recent years, this was done for Fire Service personnel when the FS suddenly realised the HSE/HMFSI might not like them letting crew operate the boats simply because they had "always done so". Although it was brought in as a sort of "grandfather rights" this was widely abused among some Services.
I disagree in principle with fast-tracking, and other associated schemes. Skills build up with repeated practice and there is no substitute for experience. That said, the best helm that I have ever been in a boat with has absolutely no RYA qualifications, and no formal teaching qualifications. His skills had simply come from over 20 years of driving boats in horrendous conditions. He would have no problem at all with the RYA Advanced PB certificate, and although his teaching skills weren't the best - I believe that he would be able to teach all of the syllabus of the Advanced PB.

So taking the example of these Fire Service personnel... they may have had years of experience boating and just never held the RYA tickets. I can't see issues with allowing them on the first day of the course to sit the PB2 assessment, as a verification that there skills are up to scratch before going on to the Instructors course.

Best wishes,
WMM
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Old 13 October 2006, 12:57   #23
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Tim Its was not a dig at you please dont take it that way its all RYA centres they just talk or show they should make them do it hard boat or not. If you go for your driving license they dont say can we talk about the 3 point turn or other parts of the syllabus do they?

Please dont give me that RYA sphiel

"The subject will be covered in greater depth and you will be asked to demonstrate a basic understanding and go away from the course able to further develop your own skill in this area"

You either teach them or you dont, i know you do what the syllabus says but its crap. untill you put a boat on a trailer you will never know how it really works, no matter the amount of talking you do.
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Old 14 October 2006, 14:35   #24
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Hi Pop
No offence taken and I respect your opinion but don't agree with it.
Out of interest what pre requisites are needed for your Class IV ticket
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