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Old 25 February 2010, 17:30   #1
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RYA training..........

The RYA website is not clear, or I just can't find the answer to my question, so opening this up to the RYA schools/Trade members of RibNet.


If I am asked for PB2, to cover insurance issues on a Rib, but I have an ICC, am I correct in thinking the ICC covers the PB2 requirement?

Thanks..................
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Old 26 February 2010, 01:36   #2
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I think this is actually an insurance question, rather than an ICC question.

- If you hold a PB2 certificate, you can send it off to the RYA as proof of competence for an ICC (with a fee of course, unless you're a member!)

- No route exists for converting an ICC back into a Powerboat Level 2 with the RYA.

- This doesn't mean you have to do a PB2 course; if you are an experienced boater you can ask a school to give you an instructor for half a day (on your own boat if the school can send an Advanced Instructor, or on their boat) to do a PB2 Direct Assessment test.

I would go back to your insurance company and say "I have an ICC, does that count instead of a PB2?", and if the answer is no, it's PB2 time!
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Old 26 February 2010, 04:14   #3
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Nautisecrets - I'm not an RYA instructor or insurance man but, beware - insurance companies rarely seem to know what they are talking about. If you tell them you have an PB2 and don't actually (or you tell them you have an equivalent ICC qualification and they decide later its not equivalent) then they will try to weadle out of a claim in the future. So provide them with the facts and let them make the judgement - don't make the judgement for them. As far as I can see the PB2 course makes very little if any difference to the premium, and e.g. I have a PB2, and my insurer knows but my boat is insured for anyone to drive with my permission.

I understand why you think PB2=ICC but if I were at an insurance company and trying to weedle out of a claim I would argue that they are not equivalent because the PB2 is a 2 day course covering everything from launch and recovery, elementary passage planning, col regs, safety equipment, towing, etc through to the specific manouvres such as coming alongside and MoB etc. In practice I suspect the ICC is in effect a test of specific manouvres - and in a couple of hourse there is no way you can be assessed for knowledge on all the background stuff that reduces the insurers risk.

I don't think the ICC "categories" specifically match to the RYA "endorsements" do they? So e.g. an ICC is just issued for power (upto 10m)? it doesn't specify planning/displacement craft.
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Old 26 February 2010, 04:30   #4
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Just to add to the mix - I have passed Day Skipper Theory, some years ago, and completed the ICC, on my own boat which then was a Princess 50.

Insurance is always a "read the small print" - I had one claim 2008, for about 23k for getting a net around a prop, bending the shaft, and causing the rubber drive "bushes" to completely disintegtrate inside the bell housing. (Can't remember the proper name)


That was at the end of May 2008 - took months to sort - parts from Italy needed during the time , July and August when they close! Managed to get back in the water, after second sea trial, just in time for a trip to Jersey.


Blimey don't I go on. Sorry. More info would be appreciated re PB2 V ICC.

Edit - I think my ICC was up to 24m.
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Old 26 February 2010, 04:37   #5
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I'd just send them a list of your qualifications and experience and let the broker worry about it. As a separate issue you might want to get some training in your RIB anyway to get the best from it - as its obviously a bit more 'flexible' than a Princess 50.
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Old 27 February 2010, 19:05   #6
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Being from the training industry I would love to say you have to bight the bullet and take a PBL2 direct assessment at a RYA Training Centre. However I think really you should pass it back to the insurer and ask them what it is in the L2 course that they want you to have done that is not covered in the ICC.

There are some differences but they are pretty small
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Old 28 February 2010, 06:36   #7
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Being from insurance - I'd go with the 'tell your broker route'. (but make sure your broker has some knowledge & do it in writing/email etc) I dont have PB2 or any boating quals, but as has been said it wont make much if any differance to cost. My wording says there must be an 'experienced' skipper on the boat - does not need to be helming it though....... you can argue about what that means, but if you have owned & run a boat for several years that is experience & could be proved if needed.

I have also set up cover for commercial operators with the requirement of experience - but most have PB2 , advanced etc anyway !
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Old 01 March 2010, 02:04   #8
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To continue with this theme ...

Being from both Training and Insurance (I was Marketing Manager for a big insurance company before I saw the light), I have to agree with the previous comments.

Insurance is based on a principle of "utmost good faith" which requires both parties to be open and honest with each other about the nature of the contract and the risks involved. You are well-advised to discuss this with the insurer. Non-disclosure is the biggest cause of disallowed claims.

What I would say, though, is to try and break past their Customer Service department and ask to speak to an Underwriter. In general, those guys do know what they are talking about, and they are the decision makers
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