RYA Kill cord survey - Page 2

Last Tango · 22 May 2015, 15:19

"You dont have to buy a new boat to get a new kill cord, and if you buy cheap crap what do you expect?"

Obviously as a Yamaha owner you feel Honda is "cheep cr*p"

Well the last piece of cheep cr*p I've just replaced was a genuine Honda part and that's the switch.....not the cord.

Starovich · 22 May 2015, 15:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Last Tango

"You dont have to buy a new boat to get a new kill cord, and if you buy cheap crap what do you expect?"

Obviously as a Yamaha owner you feel Honda is "cheep cr*p"

Well the last piece of cheep cr*p I've just replaced was a genuine Honda part and that's the switch.....not the cord.

I was using your description of what you bought. How am i to know what you purchased, the crystal ball is on back order.

Last Tango · 22 May 2015, 15:48

My point is that, having owned around 20 boats over the years (I've lost count) I have had to replace the kill switch on at least three of them that I can remember. The cord has never been an issue but the hardware that is used for such a critical application is appalling. I maintain medical equipment for a living and you would NEVER find anything as poor quality as these switches in an application that someone's life could depend on.
I end up buying cheep cr*p because that's what the manufacturers fit and that's what they sell as OEM parts.

ShinyShoe · 22 May 2015, 19:49

Last Tango... Did it fail safe though? Seems you have experience of dodgy switches. Did that mean it wouldn't start or it cut out underway or it didn't cut out when pulled?

I suspect only the last one might be thought a failure by many respondents.

Also not clear if someone replaces the curly string every 6 months and never had a failure if that is fine while someone else keeps theirs 30 years and it snaps that is not OK.

willk · 22 May 2015, 19:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Last Tango

My point is that, having owned around 20 boats over the years (I've lost count) I have had to replace the kill switch on at least three of them that I can remember. The cord has never been an issue but the hardware that is used for such a critical application is appalling. I maintain medical equipment for a living and you would NEVER find anything as poor quality as these switches in an application that someone's life could depend on.
I end up buying cheep cr*p because that's what the manufacturers fit and that's what they sell as OEM parts.

Some of the aftermarket killswitches are pure shite. I had to change one out last season after it failed at sea. It was an anchor out moment. The bypass switch is good for a quick override but I'd worry about it... kinda.

willk · 22 May 2015, 19:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShinyShoe

Last Tango... Did it fail safe though?

LOL - mine failed "safe". Drifting onto a rocky shore on a deserted headland!

Last Tango · 22 May 2015, 20:32

Last one...stepped off the boat with cord attached to me and realised the engine was still running. If it's an outboard then you're looking for the switch to "make" to kill the engine whereas an inboard it's more likely that it's going to "open" to dis, the ignition/injection pump solenoid. I'd suspect that the most likely cause of failure would be high impedance due to corrosion on contacts so and inboard would "fail safe" (not start) and an outboard "fail to kill". Which is the worst option depends on your situation when it fails.
I've got a "missile launch" cover over the bypass switch to discourage the obvious but I'm yet to see how long that withstands the weather.
If I was into arduous sport or the like where there was a high possibility of going over the side I'd duplicate the kill switches so as if either was activated the engine would be "killed". But as you say, some the after market ones are just junk but even the OEM ones are pretty tacky considering what's expected of them. Risk = likelihood of failure X the consequences of failure,

ShinyShoe · 22 May 2015, 22:12

Willk I'd suggest its only failing safe if it refuses to start, not kills while underway.

Was under the impression some OBs used break to kill electronic, rather than make to kill?

Duplicate kill switches presumably increases the risk of a false positive too though?

Last Tango · 23 May 2015, 05:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShinyShoe

Was under the impression some OBs used break to kill electronic, rather than make to kill?

Duplicate kill switches presumably increases the risk of a false positive too though?

Some of them possibly do, more of a generalisation. The switches I've had fail, failed "open" one of them internal & two of them because connector tags on the back of them hadn't been "riveted" on properly and, yes, you have increased the likelihood of a "false positive" but, if they're individually tested before the trip, the chances of them both failing simultaneously if you go over the side is virtually zero.

Pikey Dave · 23 May 2015, 06:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Last Tango

the chances of them both failing simultaneously if you go over the side is virtually zero.

But doesn't that also double the chances of a failure when you least want it, a la willk? I've had 4 boats in 25 years, never had a killcord or killcord switch failure. I regard them as a necessary evil, I do everything I can to keep the boat running, I don't want to introduce multiple failure points.

Just my view

Last Tango · 23 May 2015, 06:38

You would have to establish how they'd failed. I've not had one fail "closed" which means the engines would keep running, but that might not be the nature of every fail, unfortunately the survey doesn't ask this or for information from which this could be derived. If it is the case, and I suspect it might be, then you'd have to consider the consequences of the scenario with your own set-up. My "bypass" switch actually isolates the kill switch (serially connected) because the BF130 is "close to kill". If you take the scenario that a)they only fail open (speculative) b) you have a "close to kill" set-up c)the two switches are wired in parallel then, no you haven't increased they likelihood of failure. but in truth we don't have enough info to make that assumption and the survey isn't going to help because it's not asking the right questions.

Poly · 23 May 2015, 08:33

LT

Does your missile launch switch mean you can't actually see the status of the toggle? since it disables the kill cord that seems an increased risk of accident perhaps less so if you are the only person who ever touches the boat.

lakelandterrier · 23 May 2015, 09:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by steco1958

If you have never had a failure (as I haven't) just complete first question then scroll down to the done button

If only failures get reported then a false negative will be reported.

+1

I've done that too.

I'm not sure what the point of this survey is, - Floatyourboat, would you please share with the forum if there is an organisation sponsoring this survey (if who whom) and the objective is.

Last Tango · 23 May 2015, 10:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poly

LT

Does your missile launch switch mean you can't actually see the status of the toggle? since it disables the kill cord that seems an increased risk of accident perhaps less so if you are the only person who ever touches the boat.

No, the cover has to be opened and remain open to flick the switch, it can't be closed with the switch toggled.

willk · 23 May 2015, 12:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Last Tango

No, the cover has to be opened and remain open to flick the switch, it can't be closed with the switch toggled.

There's something hugely cool about those switches

floatyourboat · 26 May 2015, 09:45

Lakelandterrier, this survey is written by the RYA Training department. The department is often approached when people have questions about their kit, and sometimes this is about kill switches/kill cords failing. Except for the individual cases who have made contact, what is unknown is the extent of the failure issue, or how the failure has come about it is this that has driven the survey.

Rachel

lakelandterrier · 27 May 2015, 08:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by floatyourboat

Lakelandterrier, this survey is written by the RYA Training department. The department is often approached when people have questions about their kit, and sometimes this is about kill switches/kill cords failing. Except for the individual cases who have made contact, what is unknown is the extent of the failure issue, or how the failure has come about it is this that has driven the survey.

Rachel

Thanks fro the background info.

xr650 · 02 June 2015, 22:33

Done,but never having had a cord failure felt like a pointless excercise. Inspect and change before failure !!! Not rocket science.

BogMonster · 03 June 2015, 09:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xk59D

I maybe wrong but I smell a survey for market research for selling something that isn't needed, like a 100 quid kill cord made of moon dust or something equally as daft.

TBH waste of time filling it in unless someone has had a failure.

Cheers

Unobtainium, not moondust...

I filled it in, because my switch once failed on the old Humber leaving the engine running. It was just encrusted with salt and a load of WD40 fixed it, but I'm glad I found out when testing it and not by falling out of the boat. Using them is only half the battle, no point putting it on if it doesn't work...

boristhebold · 03 June 2015, 12:28

I completed the survey but feel it was rather a dumb survey and pointless. I would bet that many more incidences of the kill mechanism failing becuase the skipper hasnt worn the kill cord than a failure due to the kill cord breaking or switch not operating so perhaps they should invest their time on the main point.

The problem with failing kill cords and kill cord switches aprt from not using them are common to most boat issues, if you dont maintain your boat and regular check stuff then the weather and salt will soon cause stuff to fail. So i would probably say the main cause of issues if they are used is salt build up on/in the switch itself and the use of kill cords from some manufacturers which do not contain a wire running through the plastic, the plastic only ones get brittle and snap.

Next time in your at a marine chandler have a look at the kill cords for sale, if they aint got a wire running through them then strongly mention this to the chandlery.

Best advice on kill cords is also to replace them every few years just like you would a battery on your boat and dont leave them plugged in when you leave your boat for a week or more.