Rules

[Manos]

I suppose Mike that the school uses their own boats for the test or is only paper work.
If they do and is a 2 day course then is 75 quid a day (say 20 pounds for petrol, 25 pounds for the chap who will take you out, 10 pounds for boat depreciation - TOTAL 55 pounds per day the rest will be the school's profit)
This calculation I did it out of my head so may be I'm wrong but it makes sence doesn't it?
Still is a lot of money

[Keith Hart]

Murder is illegal....however I make a living from it!

Keith (down with the nanny state - haven't we had this discussion before) Hart

[DM]

I would have thought that 150pounds for a two day course is pretty reasonable when you think what's involved. I don't think you could hire a 15k machine plus an instructor for that sort of money anywhere. Compare it to an hours flying lesson(120) or a day in a racecar at Silverstone(150). To look on it as paying for a bit of paper is probably a bit negative as most people have holes in the knowledge bank which may be filled. What price do you put on knowledge. It costs me about 80 quid to use my own boat for a day at the coast.

David(on 10% from wavelength)Manning

[Manos]

When I said is a lot of money, I should have said that my estimated expenceses are high and profit is low. At 150 pounds for a 2 day course (assumed that you use the boat for the 2 days) profit of say about GBP 50/person for the 2 days is quite reasonable I would think
But then again different people have different ideas

[wavelength]

David(on 10% from wavelength)Manning
Cheques in the post!
Been out again today!- what a B****-two days boating in the sun
By the way- how big are porpoises when they are born- there were a couple about today and last night which were the smallest I have seen - around the size of a good cod if that means anything to anyone
Dave (meaningless comparisons) M
ps CH glad you and yours enjoyed your couple of days with us - I'll see if I can jack up a spelling weekend for you
only kidding - see you in B&F yacht club one tuesday evening??

[crazyhorse]

Wavelength we had a great time on your P2 course and I got some good feedback from the yacht club that the vhf dsc course was very good also.A lot of the lads that were on it are old mates of mine and they all said it was very good.

See you soon,

[thewavehumper]

DPGW I WASN'T HAVING A POP ( THERE IS TOO MUCH SNIPING ON THE FORUM LATELY) IT WAS JUST NICE TO SEE SOMEBODY ELSE DO IT.

BRIAN

[Mike Garside]

Originally posted by davidmanning
I would have thought that 150pounds for a two day course is pretty reasonable when you think what's involved.

Groan! I'm failing to get across my point so this is my bow-out-of-the-discussion post.

David, I do not think 150 quid for a 2-day course is expensive. Nor do I think the course contentent is rubbish. Nor do I think training is a waste of time.

On the contrary.

Those that run these courses do it as much for a love of the sea-life and the desire to share their enthusiasm and wide knowledge with newcomers. And new-comers, if they have any common sense, will want to start with some basic knowledge.

After I had read a little book by Chay Blyth called "Innocent Aboard" back in 1975 I thought I, too, might like to have a go at sailing round the world. The first thing I did was sign up for and do the basic Deck-hand course. The excitement and anticipation that this gave me set me on a course that led to a career change so that I could pursue my dream of the of adventure sailing round the world.

Knowledge is power. Training is the key to it. No argument. Period.

However, not being allowed to enter a Spanish port on a boat without a Certificate that says you are Internationally Competent is, in my opinion, Red Tape Rubbish. That is my opinion and this is, as I said, my bow-out line.

Keep up trying to persuade each other that Making New Laws is or is not a good idea, folks. I doubt if many of you will change your funtamental point of view. You either prefer to be regulated or you don't.

[Manos]

Originally posted by Mike Garside
However, not being allowed to enter a Spanish port on a boat without a Certificate that says you are Internationally Competent is, in my opinion, Red Tape Rubbish. That is my opinion and this is, as I said, my bow-out line.

So is the same in ALL OTHER EU STATES.
But evrywhere in the World to drive a car you need a drivers licence, to drive a moto bike you also need a licence, to sail a ship you need a licence, to fly a plane as an ameture and profesional you need a licence and you cannot drive, sail or fly if you do not have one.
So why is it so dramatic when Ports ask for the skipper of a boat to have an ICC??
I cannot see the point you are trying to make Mike

[Richard B]

Originally posted by Mike Garside
You either prefer to be regulated or you don't.

Good bow-out line Mike, but I don't think that it's as black-and-white as that.

We all like to be free to make our own decisions, and not to have the encumberance of a list of "essential" kit that we know we'll never use. We all feel that bureaucrats know little about the relevant issues, BUT, if you're bumped into by a give-way vessel when you were standing on, you are bound to wish that he was better educated. When the boat next to you goes up in flames and damages yours, you are bound to say "If only he had a fire extinguisher", if you're smashed into by an out-of-control and uninsured jet-ski, you'll groan in dismay... and so on.

Yours and my experience of the ICC are completely different - where you clearly had the knowledge and experience by the truck-load, and just needed a "euro-permit", I had neither and was lucky enough to enrol at a Sea-School who doesn't like handing out bits of paper to satisfy poorly made rules - he insists on putting ICC candidates like me with very little experience through the RYA Day Skipper syllabus. And excellently taught it was, too. From what I know of Roy, he certainly would have gone out of his way to make your "assessment" as quick, economical and painless as possible. But because it's a rule, I guess there is a "minimum" assesment criteria, and rules are by there nature uniform. Unfortunately what suits one person doesn't necessarily suit another.

Oh well, you've got the bit of paper now, but don't forget to have it re-stamped every (five?) years, or you might have to do the assessment all over again

[Scubakid]

Geez this is a big thred.

I for one have done the advanced power boat course and I have to say that as like Mike I have been "playing" in boats for more years than I want to remember I went for just the apraisal, and it was the longest 13 hours !! of my life. I still learned a few things that I did not know/think about. I think that the way we should run things in the UK should be on the lines of Educate NOT legistate. And to answer Manos regarding Greek legistation when I hiered a yacht over there the only thing I was asked for regarding experience was payment for the cert. I then sailed 400 miles all round the Ionian. I would add that I was experienced but was not asked about this. I have also taken my RIB to Spain and again the only experience I was required to have was to part with my money. Please do not get me wrong I think we should all be trained and if you look at this forum I think that you will find most of us are but what I am against is being forced as this will not stop those who are going to be stupid.

John

[dgpw]

I might be, but equally well I might not be. I wonder how many people take the two day course and actually are told they have failed at the end of it



I do not tend to fail people but if they do need more practice I will refer them. The point of the PB2 is safe handling with a degree of control. If this is not their I will refer people for more time. (which I will then provide usuallyy for free) They then do a reassessment to get the ticket.

[dgpw]

Originally posted by THEWAVEHUMPER
DPGW I WASN'T HAVING A POP ( THERE IS TOO MUCH SNIPING ON THE FORUM LATELY) IT WAS JUST NICE TO SEE SOMEBODY ELSE DO IT.

BRIAN

Not a problem