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Old 27 March 2003, 11:37   #51
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Sounds very sensible.
A couple of quick questions:
1. What is a boat-a rib, a sib, a sailing dinghy, a cabin cruiser? i.e. define boat
2. Is this just a UK rule?-suppose I buy from Valiant in Portugal or, dare I mention it, South Africa?
3. As this is my second boat and I already have all that gear, can I buy my boat without the added expense of paying for more safety kit?
4. What about boats which are bought "hull only" and fitted out by me and me mates in a garage?
5. Who will police and control this and what are the penalties for breaking your new law?
6. And finally, for the moment, how much will your new law cost to implement, update, control and police and what are the cost benefits of it?
Very sensible suggestion though. I totally agree one should be trained, certificated and have all the safety gear. No argument. But a law?
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Old 27 March 2003, 11:52   #52
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Quote:
Originally posted by THEWAVEHUMPER
Also the ICC and RYA should be competency based. and not curriculum based if you can demonstrate adequate knowledge and ability then there is no reason why it couldn't be done in a couple of hours. What I am really saying is make a test option as well as lessons.
There is already, but it doesn't seem to be very well publicised!

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Old 27 March 2003, 12:00   #53
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Rules

The only rules applicable in the UK are SOLAS chapter V.

This requires all vessels to carry lifejackets, flares, 1st aid, charts.

Also to undergo some sort of passage plan before departing to sea, this may be just a note of paper with weather and tides but would constitute a plan. This IS required for any trip, even a spin around the bay.

There is very little policing of these rules as yet so many are unaware of them. However, I believe with the increase of MCA boats and trained personnel we may see more prosecutions of people who have failed to carry the correct equipment and are involved in an accident.

As far as compulsory training goes: IMHO as an Instructor

Training does benefit those entering the sport with no friends / family to gain experience from. However, they must seek the education and training rather than be forced to undergo it.

A New Zealand report a few years back looked extensively at improving recreational safety. The results of their extensive research showed that the UK is by far the least regulated but has the safest records of all world countries and US states included in the research.

In the Uk as few as 20% of participants undergo formal training.

The MCA acknowledge that if compulsory training is required they have failed in their education initiatives.

Mike G,

Sorry to hear of your experience in Falmouth. As with all things in life, someone sets a standard and not everyone sets out to exceed the minimum requirements.

The ICC is obtainable in a 2 hour practicle test that will involve a very short passage and a few questions of the candidates to ensure the knowledge. The CEVNI test can be sat in an evening after a short bit of self learning.

If you believe you were mis informed prior to the course / ICC by the school, I strongly suggest you make a complaint to the RYA. It is better to be heard than just moan on this site, that way some other poor soul won't suffer in the way you and your wife have.
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Old 27 March 2003, 12:05   #54
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Guys if you don't mind me saying THIS IS THE BEST DISCUISSION EVER.
Very sensible and worth reading comments and ideas!!
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Old 27 March 2003, 12:08   #55
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ON MAKING NEW BOATING LAWS

Quote:
Originally posted by Brian
[B]...define boat.../B]
Excellent place to start, Brian.

Assuming the element that is common to all "boats" is going to be water, I s'pose a "boat" has probably got to encompass everything from the sort of thing from which Maxwell's fall of the back...right though to a child's water wings.

Or am I being too narrow in my thinking? Are we to assume that a "boat" is only something that might float ON water. Would a hovercraft be a boat? And would one of those sort of underwater motors that scuba divers hang on to, and get towed about by, be a "boat"?

This, IMHO, needs careful thought. No-one in his or her right mind would want to find us with another of those less than cleverly thought through law proposals. Y'know, the sort that has yobbos frog marched to cash machines to pay on-the-spot fines.

Or do they?
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Old 27 March 2003, 12:19   #56
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DPGW who said you could use my fingers...but being fluent in typo I truly agree with your comments [/B][/QUOTE]

Sorry all was in a meeting at the time.
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Old 27 March 2003, 12:37   #57
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what is a vessel/craft/boat etc

This is stipulated in the Carriage of Goods by Sea Act 1971. However, I do not have the book with me so I can't tell you exactly what it says. But I remember that it was complicated.

In Canada a boat is defined as follows:
Industry Definition
Ship and Boat Building
(NAICS 3366)
'Boats are defined as water-craft suitable or intended for personal or recreational use.'

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Old 27 March 2003, 12:38   #58
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Re: Rules

Quote:
Originally posted by karlT
Mike G, Sorry to hear of your experience in Falmouth.
No, no, no, Karl.

I was not complaining about sub-standard teaching. Far from it. The guy who owns the school is a RNLI man and the guy who taught us is well experienced. They were knowledgeable, helpful, enthusiastic and charming blokes. And we did learn bits and pieces.

My beef is that I have had to pay good money to get a bit of paper that Certifies me as Internationally Competent.

If, as some Forum activists would have it, I and others do this Level 2 powerboat course before being allowed to get anywhere near a boat, the last thing it would do is prove me seriously "Internationally Competent."

I might be, but equally well I might not be. I wonder how many people take the two day course and actually are told they have failed at the end of it

I now have the paper and I am legal "sur le continent,"but it proves nothing other than that I have done a very basic course for which I paid a lot of money.
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Old 27 March 2003, 12:48   #59
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Re: Re: Rules

Quote:
Originally posted by Mike Garside
I now have the paper and I am legal "sur le continent,"but it proves nothing other than that I have done a very basic course for which I paid a lot of money.
So there is not a fee set by the RYA (I suppose) for these courses?? or can any one charge as much as they want?
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Old 27 March 2003, 12:59   #60
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Yes, Manos, the Level 2 course is about 150. That, to me, is a lot of money for a bit of paper to make me legal.
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