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Old 23 July 2013, 14:38   #291
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I didn t get this. The amount you re talking about is including the petrol ? I received from gas company a request for all my Visa card details... As a banker I will never advise this
What are the 600 including ?? I guess all marina fees etc.
We will see that tomorrow !
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Old 23 July 2013, 15:20   #292
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As a mere on-looker there are a few observations I'd make:

1. HMS doesn't seem to post in this thread. Its his gig so the question should go to him and I see you've had some discussion on the event website.
2. Were you only told today? That seems very late in the day and I'd be sceptical that its been left so long to give little choice?
3. Do you have a choice? Can you walk to get fuel? I know he says you have to use their fuel option but not clear how they stop you doing the RI-2013 even if you weren't officially part of the event? But at your size of engine I guess you may need a LOT of fuel and so you may have no alternative.
4. When you signed up did you work through your costs, expected fuel use etc? Did you price that on roadside fuel or quayside? Not sure what fuel you expect to use but its 930miles if I recall and I gather cruising fuel is about 1.2L to the mile so 1100litres? Looks like its currently about EUR1.55/litre at the roadside. So its going to cost EUR1700 for fuel if you can go get your own (ignoring the cost of actually going and getting it). Not sure what quayside fuel usually costs but you'd pay 1.65 at Shepperton. Based on current exchange rate thats just over EUR2100. So provided you aren't paying more than the roadside fuel cost it sounds not a million miles off. I'd be wanting a garuntee on the actual fuel cost.

If I'd have been HMS I'd have been looking to cover the cost with a surcharge on the fuel cost so I'd just have said they'd done a deal for 1.65 a litre and if you don't want that you'll need to find an alternative supplier. There would have been a risk you'd all find something else and Hugo is left with a bill for 13,500 for the fuel guys for the unused service. On the other hand I guess most people would have said they'd take that option to avoid hassle.

5. I would love to do this event and have already hinted to friends and family it might be my "before I'm 40" thing if it ever ran again. But I think 600 while probably fair in business terms actually feels like a good way to fund HMS doing all the planning for the trip he wanted to make. Tony at Oban doesn't charge people to come take part. He provides a website. He doesn't sort fuel. He doesn't probably have so much harbour liaison. But it does feel like you are funding Hugo's trip. Yes he's paying for fuel etc just like you, although I'd be asking if any of that is sponsored or a business expense!
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Old 23 July 2013, 15:40   #293
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Old 23 July 2013, 15:44   #294
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It is worth noting they have secured a good pump price of around 1.33 per litre inc VAT from the supplier. If you were fuelling in the UK from a marina pump Hamble charge 1.55 and Last week I was charged 1.57ex VAT from Poole. Thus working on my requirement of 900 litres, it's a saving of around 250.00+VAT

It is however really important you see Hugos response on the challenge websites forum, where this is addressed.

Best
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Old 23 July 2013, 15:53   #295
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomLinley View Post
It is however really important you see Hugos response on the challenge websites forum, where this is addressed.
From HMS post on the Challenge forum:

"I fully understand what you’re saying and we too are feeling the pinch with it, with 2 boats entered.

Perhaps I can relate the background to this. Originally, we had well over 120 team applications and yet had no idea how many would actually commit - even two weeks ago we had well over 30 confirmed but through either injury or business commitments this figure has reduced to 27. Gauging how many would eventually be on the start line was literally impossible. The extent of our fuelling needs, likewise, was impossible therefore to predict. But as the event grew/shaped, it became increasingly clear that more and more harbours were becoming increasingly concerned about the fuel situation. Also, those persons who initially had volunteered their support to carry and fetch the fuel via jerry can etc, likewise began to express their concerns over the quantities involved.

The original plan was the hiring and towing of a 2000L fuel bowser ourselves but as the event size increased we realized even the largest available for us to legally tow was far too small and carried the potential danger of spillages & untrained users. We then started searching for oil companies who might be interested in coming to our aid. One after the other turned it down or had no means to convey the fuel into the boats at quayside. Donegal were the only Co who had both the means and the ability to take up the challenge.

When it was made clear that a charge was to be made for the service in light of what was needed in terms of equipment and manpower etc, we tried seeking a sponsor to cover the cost of this - we were unsuccessful in our efforts. Then we intended to swallow half the cost ourselves with a smaller contribution added to the literage charge and our picking up the shortfall, but this has proved impossible for us.

In taking counsel with DFC, it was decided that the most transparent and workable means was to use the model they have done for all the motorsports events they provide this service for - namely a fee to be equally shared by all, separate to the litre cost. No one is being underhand here - its all above board, as event organiser we are not creaming anything off, and with two boats entered myself I too will rightly have to pay my share toward this service. Although it’s costly for us all, it is fair and reasonable for a bespoke land support of 5 star professional standard.

The entrance fees have paid towards the massive amount of time and expense it has taken to organise this event - all those areas either detailed or eluded to in the documentation originally supplied to teams. Such includes: event creation, documentation origination and dispatch, liaison with all harbour authorities, meetings and telephone calls with such authorities, full liaison with teams by phone and electronic means, official Team update origination and dispatch and being on hand to answer all questions that arise personally from such. Also, website design, facebook page creation - management of all online activity, all PR - including regular press releases and story leads, coordination of event - both logistics and personnel, accommodation sourcing, hospitality arrangements, prize creation and awards, liaison re RI kit offers and the securing of such, fueling management and logistics, event management and provision of a mobile event office and personnel, oversight of RI teams land support in conjunction with Suzuki - the list is almost endless! This event and its organisation has dominated every aspect of our work here at PBR for months'.

All other comparative events such as Ronda os Acores, Round Britain Race, Venture Cup, London to Monaco etc cost thousands and thousands of pounds to enter - quite literally. We on the other hand have genuinely done our best to keep our event an 'everyman' styled event whilst at the same time meeting the needs of not only the authorities but also our entrants at every stage. This is always a challenge of course and the end result may not be perfect, but I promise you we have done our best - openly and honestly whilst including ourselves in all arrangements so that we are not maneuvering ourselves in a privileged position. I hope this clarifies things a little more.

As you can see we have tried very hard to avoid this charge to teams, and do appreciate it’s a chunk of money for everyone to come up with late in the day including ourselves, but I hope that the experience of the event will make the investment truly worthwhile and a real once-in-a-lifetime adventure.

Kind regards, HUGO."
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Old 23 July 2013, 15:56   #296
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I didn t get this. The amount you re talking about is including the petrol ? I received from gas company a request for all my Visa card details... As a banker I will never advise this
I think they want to pre-authorise the payments so they don't need to worry about cards at the marina.
ROFL - the 500 isn't for the per litre cost!! Its for your share of gettign the fuel to the harbour...
Quote:
What are the 600 including ?? I guess all marina fees etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugo on the RI-2013 Forum
The entrance fees have paid towards the massive amount of time and expense it has taken to organise this event - all those areas either detailed or eluded to in the documentation originally supplied to teams. Such includes: event creation, documentation origination and dispatch, liaison with all harbour authorities, meetings and telephone calls with such authorities, full liaison with teams by phone and electronic means, official Team update origination and dispatch and being on hand to answer all questions that arise personally from such. Also, website design, facebook page creation - management of all online activity, all PR - including regular press releases and story leads, coordination of event - both logistics and personnel, accommodation sourcing, hospitality arrangements, prize creation and awards, liaison re RI kit offers and the securing of such, fueling management and logistics, event management and provision of a mobile event office and personnel, oversight of RI teams land support in conjunction with Suzuki - the list is almost endless! This event and its organisation has dominated every aspect of our work here at PBR for months'.
No mention of marina fees there for you... think you are paying them yourself.
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Old 23 July 2013, 16:07   #297
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Pump price is really ok same price as in Belgium so it looks good for me anyway it s always possible to find arrangement helps support etc ! Leaving Belgium in 1.30 hours cheers all
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Old 23 July 2013, 16:31   #298
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Originally Posted by ShinyShoe View Post
I think they want to pre-authorise the payments so they don't need to worry about cards at the marina.
ROFL - the 500 isn't for the per litre cost!! Its for your share of gettign the fuel to the harbour...

No mention of marina fees there for you... think you are paying them yourself.


It is worth noting that diesel is also only 0.80p a litre. A further saving against normal gas station prices or marina pumps, take this into mind with the saving and the charge for insured, qualified people who can deliver the fuel on time and quickly as poss is a pretty good deal.

At some locations the petrol stations are miles away or close early at 8 or 10pm. We would be well passed this time when refuelling 30 boats. Recently the authorities stated they would not allow refuelling by jerry can and the event in that manner. A smaller fleet could have been planned but then it wouldn't be a great sceptical and the largest fleet of mainly ribs in Europe. I can tell you from racing in a pack of boats, when a large number of you cover a large distance and get to the other end the atmosphere of all the boats, experiences, excitement and memories make up for the annoying extras.

I'm looking at 16,000 entry fee to race the big boat next year and there will be less people watching than this event and half the PR, and at the end of it will have to rebuild engines at vast cost. You can get the same if not more enjoyment from boating on a more humble budget and take great experiences from it during this event.
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Old 23 July 2013, 17:35   #299
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Absolutely no problem paying quayside prices and had we budgeted for this - the premium charged is definitely worth it compared to the hassle of lugging heavy Jerry cans etc. Bangor (day 2 stop) is currently 1.50/l and no probs with that.
But on the approx 600l we will require from DFC, this fuel charge is adding an extra 70p/l - so effectively paying over 2 per litre of petrol!!!
We're just on a pretty tight budget and this unexpected cost three days before the event is painful!
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Old 23 July 2013, 17:55   #300
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I agree that it's less than ideal by a long way but its better to be upfront and open regards this than try and hide in within the pump price.

I know once we are all there the trip will be well worth it. Our team has been up until the early hours for a few nights now and dealing with many small issues, but it always the same when taking on such a distance in a boat. Look forward to cruising along side you guys and sharing some great experiences.
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