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Old 23 August 2009, 07:25   #61
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Whitbay Accident Report from MAIB:

http://www.maib.gov.uk/cms_resources/LastCall.pdf

RIB Capsize Report from MAIB (Wales)

http://www.maib.gov.uk/cms_resources...ib6_Report.pdf

Rigid Raider Army Cadet Report (Scotland) from MAIB:

http://www.maib.gov.uk/publications/...ding_craft.cfm

These might not 100% equates to RIB's, but all involved Rough Weather and has learning points.

I don't know if these docs have been posted before.

S.
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Old 23 August 2009, 08:07   #62
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Of course,

it is not certain that you are going to be better off with a bigger boat or even a displacement vessel. In 1998, for example, there was a case of a similar tragedy, his time, with a 46 foot Yacht, again in Tyneside.

It is a long tale, and I'll just post the last bit, after they had vetured just out side the port to find rough seas:

Making almost no headway in the dying wind and heavy swell, the
wallowing motion was making some of the guests began to be seasick. It was no longer a fun occasion and course was shaped for the harbour entrance, the jib handed and the main was reefed again. She began her homeward passage under power. The skipper knew that low water was predicted shortly after 1500, and with only two hours left of the outgoing
stream still to run, believed the worst of the sea conditions would be over by the time he reached the entrance. He had no doubts that returning would be straightforward, and did not anticipate rough conditions. Nobody was told to wear lifejackets or harnesses and clip on.
The skipper furled the main as She headed back towards the harbour entrance and clipped himself on while doing so.
Back in the cockpit, and when about a mile from the harbour entrance, he called Tyne Harbour Radio and reported his position. He then asked, "Is it all right to come on in, and up to the marina?"
The reply was, "Yes, you are all clear." He headed for the harbour entrance.
As he approached it was obvious waves were breaking over the piers and the two lighthouses marking the seaward ends but, apart from this, the actual conditions could not be seen from the low height of eye in the cockpit until they were much closer. Once again the sea surface was calm.
The skipper had little inkling, or foreboding of trouble, but was aware his full attention would be necessary to bring the yacht into harbour. The crew was briefed and one of them, known to have dinghy sailing experience, was given instructions for handling the main sheet. She was under full control with minimal sail set, and those onboard were happy that all was well.
Apart from the skipper who was steering and standing abaft the wheel, nearly everyone else was sitting in the cockpit. At least one other was also standing and another was filming events with a video camera. Everyone had begun to enjoy the experience.
As the yacht entered the river and passed between the pier ends it became obvious the seas were much heavier than expected. Once inside, the skipper, given the following seas, was giving his full attention to steering. The time was shortly before 1300.
When about 2-3 cables inside the entrance, those on board looked astern and saw large waves beginning to build. They began to break, and one of these lifted the stern so much that the yacht adopted a steep bow down angle as she slid down its face. With the bow now digging in, her
forward movement was arrested and she virtually pitchpoled. Almost immediately she twisted to port and was knocked down to starboard.
She went over to about 120, remained there for an indeterminate number of seconds and then came upright. The engine was still running. It was a difficult moment; the skipper had been pressed so hard against the wheel by the force of the water that he had bent the spokes of the wheel and he found he couldn't steer. He had also lost his glasses and couldn't see properly for a few moments. At the same time it became very obvious that three people had been swept overboard.
The yacht had, in the meantime, been turned through 180 and was heading seawards once again.
One of the victims was seen floating face down very shortly afterwards. While attempting to carry out the rescue, and with one of the victims holding on to a deployed lifesling, the yacht was hit by
another wave that pushed her well over to starboard. She recovered a second time and the engine was still running, but the victim at the end of the lifesling had not been able to put it on and had let go. Together with the other two, he was now being swept out to sea.
Assistance, however, soon came with the prompt arrival of the Tynemouth lifeboat. Although all three victims were recovered only one survived; the other two died from drowning. None of those washed overboard were wearing lifejackets.
Some time later the skipper was arrested on a manslaughter charge and for failing to register a vessel under the Merchant Shipping Act.

I post these stories, not because I am ghoulish or take pleasure in them, but I believe there are important lessons to be learned.
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Old 23 August 2009, 08:44   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SPR View Post
Whitbay Accident Report from MAIB:

http://www.maib.gov.uk/cms_resources/LastCall.pdf

RIB Capsize Report from MAIB (Wales)

http://www.maib.gov.uk/cms_resources...ib6_Report.pdf

Rigid Raider Army Cadet Report (Scotland) from MAIB:

http://www.maib.gov.uk/publications/...ding_craft.cfm

These might not 100% equates to RIB's, but all involved Rough Weather and has learning points.

I don't know if these docs have been posted before.

S.
With regards to the Whitby one conditions were very bad and the Lifeboat crew called the Last Call on VHF to tell them not to leave harbour. I believe the crew were getting kitted up before the accident had even happened as they knew what would happen if the Last Call left Harbour.

If you look at the size of Last Call and the photo of the Lifeboat leaving the harbour you can see how bad it was.
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Old 23 August 2009, 08:49   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rupert View Post
Talking of Whitby reminds me of that tragic accident (23rd Nov., 2007), when 3 people died after their cabin cruiser overturned in atrocious conditions at the mouth of Whitby Harbour at around midday.
A force eight gale and massive waves were pounding the piers and area just outside the harbour at the time and despite the heroic efforts of the lifeboat crew - and an RAF Sea King helicopter crew - the trio could not be saved in the treacherous conditions.
At the time, the RNLI lifeboat crew said they saw the boat attempting to leave the harbour and tried to contact it via radio to warn the occupants not to go to sea.
Whitby’s all-weather lifeboat George and Mary Webb was launched, but in minutes the cabin cruiser was seen to capsize.

I don't suppose they would have had much more chance in a rib, even with more sea experience.

Very sad.
I disagree slightly - if you look at the pictures in the MAIB report you will see photos of the boat just before it capsizes.

Yes they were very bad conditions but it was a combination of driver error and a totally unsuitable boat. Something like an Orkney pilot house 24 would have had a much better chance.

RIBs will take far more of a pounding than any Bayliner. It really is suprising just how poor some of these typical pleasure craft are in rough water.

Here is a video of the sort of conditions a RIB can handle - truly frightening.

50kt winds and 40' waves - the winds had been as much as 80kts prior to launch!!!



You need to watch it until about 1/2 way to really see what is going on.
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Old 23 August 2009, 08:55   #65
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Chewy,

Yes, an immense difference in size between the lifeboat and Last Call, and between the designs, etc.

Nevertheless, Last Call was:
A GRP construction, 7.34m LOA, 2,397 Kg with a 220HP - 5.0L Mercruiser Alpha 1 petrol sterndrive. Not exactly a dinghy. Many ribs on this site are smaller than Last Call.

Of course, she shouldn't have been out in those conditions.
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Old 23 August 2009, 08:56   #66
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Agreed Cod,

That's why I am looking for a rib.
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Old 23 August 2009, 10:07   #67
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Quote:
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Something like an Orkney pilot house 24 would have had a much better chance.
No it wouldn't, have you seen the photos of the Trent leaving the harbour.
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Old 23 August 2009, 13:49   #68
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in a good rib you are helming a competent, agile, and manouverable planing hull that will cope with a lot. Dragging stuff behind you is arguably good advice in a displacement yacht or whatever but in a rib you are asking for trouble as you comprimise the agility of the boat, and invite a propeller to be fouled with rope when driving around breaking waves. Trim down going into a sea and up going with it. It needs some bottle and experience to put sufficient power on to get the trim effect from the engine, esp heading into a sea. It also needs a boat with a proper transom angle that allows sufficient down trim-and they don't all have that. We have put crew on other ribs at sea when the owners had had enough and one in particular did not have enough down trim to cope with the conditions properly. Pretty rib but crap in a head sea!
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Old 23 August 2009, 14:23   #69
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Trailing Warps

Quote:
Originally Posted by m chappelow
i know one boater that sometimes tows an old traffic cone [ pointy bit first] when it gets rough
Quote:
Originally Posted by wavelength
in a good rib you are helming a competent, agile, and manouverable planing hull that will cope with a lot. Dragging stuff behind you is arguably good advice in a displacement yacht or whatever but in a rib you are asking for trouble as you comprimise the agility of the boat, and invite a propeller to be fouled with rope when driving around breaking waves.
I understand the arguments for and against trailing warps and was surprised to hear of it used in something like a rib. I would interested to hear if anyone else had used such a technique and would like to know how they got on.

Or is the chap with the traffic cone the only one out there.

Jon
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Old 23 August 2009, 15:49   #70
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Although all three victims were recovered only one survived; the other two died from drowning. None of those washed overboard were wearing lifejackets.
Lifejackets....
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