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Old 17 November 2014, 19:27   #31
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Did any one else notice the lazy reporting by the papers, Places like the independent copy and pasting the green peace press release, The Spanish navy boats rammed the green peace dinghy's!! worded to make it sound like they wern't both ribs of equal size

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Old 20 November 2014, 02:36   #32
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Hmm, not good from both sides.
I can't condone the green pieces attempt to interfere with the lawful activity of 2 vessels.

I work on ships, and believe me after the Attack on the Limburg if small boats are coming at you with a purpose, and you are on an oil or gas tanker, you rather hope the police would take action as they did in this video.

In the US I have had CG escorts going into oil and gas terminals, and they have a constant 500 foot exclusion zone around a tanker, anyone gets near they warn them off with a VHF call, followed by a nudge out of the way, if they still don't listen, well the CG have machine guns. It has happened in the Middle East a few years ago, admittedly it was a US navy vessel, and was about 4 years after the Cole got hit.
Just because the protesters were not carrying guns, does not mean they were not a threat. The ribs could have been carrying explosives, but with the proximity of the green pieces little boats, it was not likely.

Tensions run high in these situations. If there was an exclusion zone the protestors should have been no where near the larger vessels. In any case they were both RAIM, which required the green pieces to keep clear of them under COLREGS.

I do think in this case if the intentions of the protesters were known, or hinted at, a less dramatic intervention may have been possible. If they protesters continued after getting warned by repeated sideswipes, then they have themselves to blame. Unfortunately the video would never show if they were warned, or if there was a gradual escalation of warnings which culminated in the final confrontation.

Also understand that on the large vessels side they are often the targets of nutters and idiotic, dangerous protests. I remember going under a very famous bridge in the US on a tanker whilst someone dropped a large pot of paint onto us. Had it hit someone, there would have been a fatality.

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Old 20 November 2014, 04:06   #33
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Old 20 November 2014, 12:07   #34
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This was a loose loose incident, no winners. Greanpeace, both organisation and the individuals inside have to take responsibilities for their activities. Despite it looks like a very organized organisation generally knowing what they are doing, there is always a degree of risk of injury or even fatality in such operation. This time the risk come true as injuries, unfortunately.

On the other hand, with limited material available, looks like the rambo's on the "force" foked up big time....According the video there was radio contact in advance before the raid and also a Rainbow mother vessel, so it was pretty obvious who was doing the raid and time enough for proper risk assessment. That said, the action taken by the force looks unprofessional and rookie like. Considering it was Greenpeace , the "protection" could have be done less aggressive but still doing their job. Knowing everything today will be on video and also social media activity, the aggressive looking behavior by the force looks like a perfect PR disaster, not sure they will get any Christmas presents from the oil company either. legality issues will for sure be defined in court at later stage, difficult to say witch side will have a harder time.
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Old 20 November 2014, 15:54   #35
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Police always win in court on stuff like this, the prosecutors are on"their side" afterall.

Greenpeace wins in court of public opinion (maybe not convincing everyone but they are being bullied and they are the one's bleeding on camera to show it so for them its a win)

I agree about exclusion zones but this looks to be outside the 3 mile limit, and I'm not sure any state/country can or should be using their military to enforce their rules outside the 3 mile limit.
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Old 20 November 2014, 16:29   #36
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Originally Posted by captnjack View Post
I agree about exclusion zones but this looks to be outside the 3 mile limit, and I'm not sure any state/country can or should be using their military to enforce their rules outside the 3 mile limit.
Yeah. Try rubbing up against these guys 4 miles off....

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Old 20 November 2014, 16:33   #37
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The police in any given country tend to be heavy-handed sh1theads, looking out for the big boys with the money. That is to be expected.

Just a few days ago here some woman in Ireland got thrown against a bollard by the police for walking infront of some poltician's car.
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Old 21 November 2014, 00:42   #38
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Originally Posted by willk View Post
Yeah. Try rubbing up against these guys 4 miles off....
No thanks. We were overtaken by a USN Frigate coming into San Diego from a White Shark cage diving trip. (Apparently the exclusion zone only works one way, as they passed about 200 yds off our starboard side.) Lots of pleasure boats out and about, including a lot of blowboaters tacking their way along. The frigate had .50 caliber M2s on each corner, all manned by a gunner and a spotter. Anyone within about a quarter mile had a gun trained on them. I have no doubts they were locked and loaded.

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Old 21 November 2014, 10:42   #39
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Quite horrible really dont you think,

I suppose you could play this out in many ways

Greenpeace had radioed their intentions.

Exclusions zones, but how would you know you were within 500 meters. Could be open, e.g. actually we think you were 450 meters.

Large boats get very worried in these situations and rightly so.

Police did seem a little excessive.

all bad for boating, for most of its supposed to be fun
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Old 21 November 2014, 13:55   #40
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All pretty tame really. Thirty years ago the French government blew up the Rainbow Warrior alongside in Auckland because she was inconveniencing their nuclear testing in the Pacific...

There will always be activists ready to 'campaign' using direct action and it always amuses me the 'outrage' that spews forth when their direct action is countered (using direct action) by the forces of law and order.

If you want to debate something, there are times, places and processes. Once you've lost the debate and decide to take 'direct action' then you shouldn't be surprised when the going gets tough.
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