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Old 29 January 2009, 15:41   #21
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Nooooo.....probably the worst thing to put into floodwater - extremely vulnerable to puncture damage, submerged barbed wire fences, floating debris, chemical or bio contamination, all sorts of nasties.

There is a specific type of inflatable useful for wier rescue (low head dams to our US cousins) or for mud rescue, but that's about it.

That depends on the term flood water. If we are talking house to house flooded street they are very good. If we are talking river grade water they are good for staged rescue platforms but as you so rightly say, poor for moving water.

However we have used them very succesfully on large river rescue covers.

Andy
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Old 29 January 2009, 15:45   #22
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Depending on the mission you wish to accomplish, how about a Jetski with a rescue board on the back?

Very little draft, small, easily launched (Youtube vids of jetskiers launching their trucks notwithstanding), and no spinning prop to ruin peoples days.

jky
Used these as well with a raft on the back rather than a board, but as with all craft each has it's place - really need to know what sort of area, water, hazards the team will be operating in before we look at crafts.



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Old 29 January 2009, 17:29   #23
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That depends on the term flood water. If we are talking house to house flooded street they are very good.
Andy
It's horses for courses really - they would still be my second choice for urban street type rescues - one of the biggest advantages we found using an ali boat in the 2007 floods was because the water height was above ground floor window level, we could power up bow on to the house, holding us perfectly while a ladder was used to bring people out of upstairs windows. This did prove very effective.

Codders - the reason inflatable boats are OK in whitewater is to do with the hydrodynamics - white water contains over 50% air, which is why you can't swim in a weir boil line. Any fixed object in whitewater, even a jagged rock, will have, however seemingly small, a cushion of water/air mix around it which will help deflect the hull.
This does not occur in floodwater, therefore rendering the craft more vulnerable.

Added to that, an inflatable boat is a one-shot device, i.e. if it hits a sharp object, you're in trouble. For the same reason, we never ever use air-filled lifejackets in that situation, always rescue PFDs.
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Old 29 January 2009, 17:36   #24
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. For the same reason, we never ever use air-filled lifejackets in that situation, always rescue PFDs.
http://www.polarbearsq.com/product.asp?pid=417

These are the ones I've moved over to using, great price for a good piece of kit.

Andy
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Old 30 January 2009, 03:26   #25
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The RLSS UK are looking to develop its own Open Water Rescue Awards and are in consultation with Rescue 3 and numerous Fire and Rescue Organisations around the country this will eventually lead to a new award designed around floodwater rescue .

Havener has made some good points in respect to type of craft used for Flood Water Rescue and each area or site will have its own unique site specifics so one type of boat will not suit all areas .


The same applies to the training to a large extent as not all areas are going to have the same type of geography effecting the flood water so a very complex thing to set up and organise and of course practice in, so I guess training will have to cover as broader subject base as possible to cover all eventualities.
The RWC is a good choice of craft but limited in certain areas again .
Some great stuff on youtube showing training for Swiftwater Rescue applications and real rescues .
Cheers Tim
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Old 30 January 2009, 09:16   #26
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for urban flood rescue the RNLI use 3 types the D class ,and boarding boats ,both 16 foot s.i.b.s and the arancia beach lifeguard ribs, all are taken to site trailored by a landrover with each team being self sufficiant .when filey flooded a couple of years ago the lifeboat went into the town , the d class was used but kept fastened on the trailer as the depth of water varied so it was pushed and sailed around the town .having said that the rnli lost a d class in flood waters when it was sucked under a low road bridge along with a 40 hp outboard the crew just climbed off in time ,have a look on REDCAR LIFEBOATs web site ,there a few photos of when they went down to hull a few years back ,also there is a fantastic video somewhere on the net of an rnli sib speeding down a flooded main street and the boat just does a right turn into the next road as if driving a car . ps dont forget that there is no such thing as flood management you can not manage flood water , regards mart
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Old 30 January 2009, 11:12   #27
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This page shows the rescue configuration of the PWC I was suggesting:

http://www.honolulu.gov/hfd/otherequipment_pwc.htm

At the bottom of the page.

FWIW, the State Park Lifeguards in Monterey/Carmel CA run pretty much the same thing (I just don't have pics of them, though I have helped launch and recover on occasion.)


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Old 30 January 2009, 14:46   #28
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The RLSS UK are looking to develop its own Open Water Rescue Awards and are in consultation with Rescue 3 and numerous Fire and Rescue Organisations around the country this will eventually lead to a new award designed around floodwater rescue .

Havener has made some good points in respect to type of craft used for Flood Water Rescue and each area or site will have its own unique site specifics so one type of boat will not suit all areas .


The same applies to the training to a large extent as not all areas are going to have the same type of geography effecting the flood water so a very complex thing to set up and organise and of course practice in, so I guess training will have to cover as broader subject base as possible to cover all eventualities.
The RWC is a good choice of craft but limited in certain areas again .
Some great stuff on youtube showing training for Swiftwater Rescue applications and real rescues .
Cheers Tim
This is such a large area of concern at the moment various bodies are at it. Within teh BCU Lifeguards we have re vampted our award. Various fire services have put together an SRT version using 5 levels of operator, 4 being boat. And as teh say the RLSS are looking at it as well.

And there is also the K38 team in Cornwall who use PWCs and a rescue sylabus http://k38ukrescue.blogspot.com/2008...er-rescue.html

I can train the BCU version and we are currently ramping up trainers to try and fill the void that is out there. Proplem is the governement gave the resposibilty for water rescue to the fire service in December. There are a number of forums starting up to ensure that teh volunteer groups can work with the fire service as it's accepted that in major incidents the serice can't get enough man power, locally, fast enough but they have concerns on training, skills etc. So it's watch this space.
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Old 30 January 2009, 14:58   #29
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Bit of RWC History

You gotta hand it to Hawaiians for coming up with a good idea.
A Captain Brian Keaulana and Water Safety Officer Terry Ahue were the first guy's to develop this type of rescue technique.
The inspiration were the Australian and New Zealand Surf Lifeguards using IRB but this type of craft was not suitable for the surf in Hawai.

It was not until they saw a guy called Tony Sanchez of Haleiwa useing his PWC in high Surf at Waimea Bay during a surf contest that they saw the potential for rescue work using jet propulsion .
The rest is history as now every Beach Lifeguard Organisation uses Rescue Water Craft as there primary means of rescue craft.
The RLSS UK have there own version of RWC training and it is one of my favourite courses
Tim Anorak Griffin signing off now
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Old 31 January 2009, 16:05   #30
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You want something like an Avon ERB380 Pro. Good bit of kit.

http://www.avon-workboats.com/page/erb380p
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