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Old 08 July 2007, 18:19   #1
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Ribcraft 5.85 engine choice - 140 or 150 ?

After two years away from RIBs I think it may be time to change back. I have been in discussion with Ribcraft about a 5.85 but could do with some help with the engine choice. I have spent many happy hours searching past threads but would welcome updated thoughts and opinions.
The boat will be based in Pembrokeshire and will be used for a combination of cruising the offshore islands and skiing including mono-skiing. This unfortunate combination of needs means that I would like a boat that can cruise over distance without being too heavy on fuel or stern heavy but is also capable of dragging a salad dodger like me out of the water with a few other salad dodgers watching in the boat.
I have narrowed my choices to a Suzi DF140 or 150 or the Yam F150 with the Suzi's seemingly preferred by Ribcraft due to the fact they can price more competitively.
So in my shoes what would you go for?
The way I see it the 140 sounds like a well proven and good match to the boat but may lack the guts to pull well enough for skiing. The 150 however may have more pull for skiing but be more expensive to run and a tad heavy thereby compromising handling on longer/rougher trips.
I read in one of Ibwet's posts that he burns 1.2ltrs/NM with the 150 Suzi, can anyone give me a comparitive number for the 140 Suzi or the 150 Yam?
I also noticed in one of Ibwets posts that he trialled both a 140 and 150 on a 5.85 before comitting, in case Ibwet doesn't read this does anyone know how he would have achieved this I am assuming it must have been at Ribex or somewhere similar.
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Old 08 July 2007, 18:34   #2
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I've also been known to dodge the salad, as has roycruse on this forum, but his RC585/140 Soozook manages to pull us out of the water quite easily (not at the same time )
Are you looking to do deep water mono-ski starts?
A way of getting a good compromise for cruising and skiing is to run two different props. The standard 21" (I think?) pitch Soozook prop is great for general use on the 585, but if you're struggling with deep water starts, get another prop with an inch or two less in pitch.
I think the 150 would cost you around £1500 more, but it is a 3 litre lump so will have loads of grunt compared with the 140 (2.1 litre) It will use more fuel though. I think roycruse uses < 1 litre/nm on his set-up. Andrew Edge (The Edges) also has a RC585/140 Sooz. Perhaps he'll respond on fuel consumption.
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Old 08 July 2007, 18:48   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woot View Post
After two years away from RIBs I think it may be time to change back. I have been in discussion with Ribcraft about a 5.85 but could do with some help with the engine choice. I have spent many happy hours searching past threads but would welcome updated thoughts and opinions.
The boat will be based in Pembrokeshire and will be used for a combination of cruising the offshore islands and skiing including mono-skiing. This unfortunate combination of needs means that I would like a boat that can cruise over distance without being too heavy on fuel or stern heavy but is also capable of dragging a salad dodger like me out of the water with a few other salad dodgers watching in the boat.
I have narrowed my choices to a Suzi DF140 or 150 or the Yam F150 with the Suzi's seemingly preferred by Ribcraft due to the fact they can price more competitively.
So in my shoes what would you go for?
The way I see it the 140 sounds like a well proven and good match to the boat but may lack the guts to pull well enough for skiing. The 150 however may have more pull for skiing but be more expensive to run and a tad heavy thereby compromising handling on longer/rougher trips.
I read in one of Ibwet's posts that he burns 1.2ltrs/NM with the 150 Suzi, can anyone give me a comparitive number for the 140 Suzi or the 150 Yam?
I also noticed in one of Ibwets posts that he trialled both a 140 and 150 on a 5.85 before comitting, in case Ibwet doesn't read this does anyone know how he would have achieved this I am assuming it must have been at Ribex or somewhere similar.
Hi Woot,

The consumption has gone down marginally; to less a ltr per Nm , the engine at a set speed and comparing the knots by the ltrs per hour on the computer is the way I have been doing this.

The comparison took place a the Southampton boat show, I felt the 140 (5.85) was very smooth but the 150 had considerably more torque(on a 6.5)
I think you will have to try for yourself, the decision on the engine performance will be easy,however my boat does sit low in the water at he stern. It's fine for me,maybe not for everybody.

Let us know which one you pick.
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Old 08 July 2007, 19:15   #4
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Go for the 150, then if I see you out on the Haven, we can see how it compares with my 150 Opti on the same size boat
I nearly went for a 150 Soozook myself, but couldn't get one for the right money.
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Old 09 July 2007, 07:05   #5
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i had no problem with deep water starts behind a 5.8 vipermax with a 140 sooz
atb
gerry
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Old 09 July 2007, 15:24   #6
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Thanks for the replies fella's all good information.
To clarify a few things, I will want the boat to be able to cope with monoskiing deep water starts.
Changing the prop is a good suggestion but the boat will spend much of its life in a marina and I wouldn't fancy changing props hanging off the back on a regular basis (I'm a clumsy s#d and it could get expensive)
After the replies I like the sound of the 140 combo on the basis of all round balance and price/economy BUT i am still worried it won't be man enough for serious skiing. For those of you with experience of using the combo for skiing if you were trying to pull a salad dodger out on one ski:
1 - could it do it?
2 - if it could how many bodies do you think the boat could carry and still manage it (I used to tow my mate out on one ski from my 5m humber with a 60hp yam 4 stroke but he was submerged for quite some time on the way up and I could only do it with just me on the boat, any passengers made it unmanageable).
finally, I haven't ruled out the 150 yet so Ibwet, what do you use your boat for? is it mainly cruising? have you pulled any skiiers/toys? how have you found the combo in differing conditions? .My current boat has a 4.3ltr V6 in a 19ft hull so I know that too much weight on the stern can mean suspect handling in the rougher stuff (but bl##dy good fun when its flat).

Cheers
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Old 09 July 2007, 16:25   #7
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Hi

I have the DF140 on the back of my Humber 6.3 but would definately choose the DF150 if I were currently in the market for a new engine. Although the 140 is a fantastic engine, both quiet and economical, its 2.1 litres is working quite hard and it is alleged that it only produces circa 128bhp. Consequently if you can carry the extra weight on the transom go for the 150. Both engines are good no matter which you finally choose
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Old 09 July 2007, 17:02   #8
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I've got the Yam F150 on a Ribcraft 585. I always go for as much HP as I can, but I can't imagine there’s a huge difference between the 140 and 150 after taking into consideration the extra 25 kg.

Last year I went cruising from Poole to the Plymouth/Salcombe area, spent a week there on the boat and then back to Poole. Averaged 1.12nm per ltr - thats cruising at ~30kts.

Top Speed = 45kts (2 up + 180l of fuel)

Can't fault the engine - no problems, good performance.
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Old 09 July 2007, 17:21   #9
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finally, I haven't ruled out the 150 yet so Ibwet, what do you use your boat for? is it mainly cruising? have you pulled any skiiers/toys?
Cheers [/QUOTE]

Proportionally the larger the boat engine combo is, the smaller as percentage the skier becomes. I learned to ski behind a SR4, with a 60hp 2 stroke, so technique needed to be good, we changed props travelling /Skiing as has been suggested already.

I've never tried behind a Suz 140 but even if the 128hp theory is true, I can't see there being any issues (even on a mono) up to 6mtrs.

My boat has pulled a mono skier out with three adults up, obviously slower than just me aboard, but it's only a marginal difference. I've settled on a 25" prop, I've now never feel the need to change it for anything.

We use it mainly for island hoping pub to pub kids, water toys, back up to another boat. Its covered trips of over 200 nm and never missed a beat

There was another 5.85 owner launching in the marina with the 140, we swapped over, the 140 was sweet and smooth but both of us thought the step down in go was marked.

I think the extra torque is allowing me to run the larger prop that levels out the consumption, the only time I use full power occasionally or to show off, as it chine walks.

I've never wanted for more power, that’s worth a lot on it's own. So as far as I'm concerned the only issue is you've got is weight.
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Old 09 July 2007, 18:15   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woot View Post
Changing the prop is a good suggestion but the boat will spend much of its life in a marina and I wouldn't fancy changing props hanging off the back on a regular basis (I'm a clumsy s#d and it could get expensive)
You should be able to back the boat up on the inside corner of a pontoon and change the prop sitting on the edge of the pontoon with the skeg between your knees - take care!

Quote:
Originally Posted by woot View Post
For those of you with experience of using the combo for skiing if you were trying to pull a salad dodger out on one ski:
1 - could it do it?
2 - if it could how many bodies do you think the boat could carry and still manage it
'How long is a piece of string?'
How much salad dodging do you do?
What ski do you use? The older mono-skis with a narrow tail will take a lot longer than the more modern wider skis, which generate a lot more lift.
Technique/experience - an experienced skier will successfully do a deep water start behind a lowish powered boat, whereas a novice may struggle behind a tournament ski boat.
Personally, I think it will do it, quite comfortably, with 2 or 3 medium sized people on board.
Have Ribcraft offered you a test run where you could try a spot of skiing?

Go for the 150
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Old 09 July 2007, 22:06   #11
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I agree with Downhilldai. Believe it or not. I used to pull a single mono skier on a deep water start with a 14ft Fletcher and a 50 hp merc. Could also pull two mono skiers from a jump start. Oh, for those days when you could water ski above Burseldon Bridge, launch and park for free at Swanwick Hard, cook breakfast on the bank and then go up to the Horse and Jockey for a pint for lunch. On high springs the water was over the bank so all you did was ski off the wet grass.
T.
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Old 10 July 2007, 02:43   #12
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I think my mind is made and the 150 is the boy for me. The next decision is the suzi 150 or the yam.
Its good to here from people who are running both and are both happy with their choice (this forum really is priceless, please keep up the good work).
As I stated earlier Ribcraft seem to push the Suzis and will supply the yam but for a much higher cost. My last RIB had a yam and it never missed a beat but I also know people who have had the suzi 140 s and been very happy so the suzi will probably edge it unless someone gives me some good reasoning to spend more on the yam.
One more question, you are now familiar with my needs what prop would be best, I had assumed that I would buy a stainless steel from the outset, any recommendations?
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Old 11 July 2007, 16:16   #13
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Just seen the thread, was the HARD BOAT (Ebtide) not up to scratch................

My first Ribcraft was a 5.85 with a 115 Suzuki and we use to deepwater start mono with it and had no issues.

If you really think you need a 150, then I would ask the question, which dealer is going to offer you the best service, and on that subject you are on your own.

There is a 6.5 in neyland with a 150 and a 5.85 with a 140, so if you are in neyland, see if the guys are around. If you want a 6.8 with a 200 suzuki, give me a call.
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Old 11 July 2007, 16:42   #14
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Why not take a leaf out of Flavio's book and stick a Suzook DF 250 on there? Like his, it would only be 100hp over the max design hp. You could dodge as many salads as you like then.
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Old 11 July 2007, 17:26   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woot View Post
I have narrowed my choices to a Suzi DF140 or 150 or the Yam F150 with the Suzi's seemingly preferred by Ribcraft due to the fact they can price more competitively.
So in my shoes what would you go for?
The way I see it the 140 sounds like a well proven and good match to the boat but may lack the guts to pull well enough for skiing. The 150 however may have more pull for skiing but be more expensive to run and a tad heavy thereby compromising handling on longer/rougher trips.
I read in one of Ibwet's posts that he burns 1.2ltrs/NM with the 150 Suzi, can anyone give me a comparitive number for the 140 Suzi or the 150 Yam?
I also noticed in one of Ibwets posts that he trialled both a 140 and 150 on a 5.85 before comitting, in case Ibwet doesn't read this does anyone know how he would have achieved this I am assuming it must have been at Ribex or somewhere similar.
Average burn for me is 1.2 NM per Liter. I've got a special alloy prop thats cheap and superior to the Suzi one. Dunno about the 150 but the 140 is good. Its certainly quiet, fast and frugal.

Those highlighted bits if true seem quite a difference for the same boat.
NR.
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Old 12 July 2007, 02:25   #16
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Peter, the Ebbtide has been a great boat and I had had a great two years with her. I have been able to have up to 7 people on board and still pull a monoskier up from a deep water start no problem. I have taken her as far as Grassholm, for regular Skomer picnics and caught lots of fish from the swim platform. After having owned a RIB however when you are cruising anywhere outside the Haven in a hardboat I am always aware of how much easier and safer it felt in a RIB. The main reason I chose the hardboat over a RIB last time was that I though if I went for something more comfortable and lavish than a RIB my wife would spend more time on the water meaning more time on the water for me. Initially this was the case but has now tailed off. The Ebbtide had a 2 year warranty which ran out in May so its time to reassess options. Its all your fault along with Alex, I really enjoyed my trip to the Smalls but wouldn't have taken it on in the Ebbtide.
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Old 12 July 2007, 04:29   #17
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The only boat better than a rib is a rib with a cabin........
If you want to try a 5.85 with a 140, let me know and I will give you the phone number of the guy.
catch up soon for another smalls trip. (see pictures of last trip in gallery section.
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Old 12 July 2007, 07:02   #18
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I cruise mostly, no skiing as yet, don't bother looking at the fuel consumption just fill it up when its empty! I'm sure both lumps will do what you want. personally I'd go for the 140 and then get the equivalent of 2 years free fuel
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Old 12 July 2007, 15:06   #19
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Thanks again guys more good info.
Pete, I read your reply earlier today and have spent all day trying to justify to myself why i need a 6.8 with a 200 (and where I would get the money). I love the idea and know from having seen it at close quarters that your boat is stunning but my sensible side (that doesn't get listened to much) won't let me do it.
The dealer issue is one of the reasons I initially fancied the Yam. The Pembs Yam dealer I used was really good with my other engine and I would have had confidence in using them again. However when i went to their showroom last weekend to see that everything was still running as previous i found an empty showroom and staff that are waiting to find out if they have jobs and if so where they will be, not confidence inspiring. I have no experience of the local Suzi dealer but have heard rumblings about them being slow, expensive and difficult to deal with. I would value your opinion on good dealers locally, if you don't want to hang dirty washing out in public pm me.
Finally I would be grateful if you could put me in touch with the guy with the 5.85 / Suzi combo, I'd gladly buy him a few pints in the bar whilst I quiz him on his rig.
Cheers
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Old 13 July 2007, 12:58   #20
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Hello Paul,

I'm not going to be out on the river much tomorrow - just tomorrow evening upto Haverfordwest to the pub, but next weekend if the weather's good and you're about, you're more than welcome to try some skiing off the back of my boat with the 140. You may be surprised, I don't know

edit: the local suzy dealer / service people are slow, but book 2 or 3 months in advance for your service and you'll be sorted. Don't let them take advantage though, and keep pestering them....

Will keep you posted on more trips as the summer (what summer?) arrives.

-Alex
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