Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
 
Old 08 June 2004, 10:56   #11
Member
 
Country: Greece
Town: Gloucetsreshire
Boat name: GATO DI MARE
Make: MAR.CO
Length: 9m +
Engine: Yamaha 200Vmax
MMSI: 235027678
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,339
Send a message via MSN to Manos Send a message via Yahoo to Manos Send a message via Skype™ to Manos
Cheers Nick.

Will post a few later on this evening or early this am. I'm going out and have no time for it right now

Thanks again
__________________

Manos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08 June 2004, 13:02   #12
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Hamble
Length: 9m +
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,317
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manos

I do not know if I covered everything but I'm full of salt, so I'm going for a wash.
So what your saying is that it's not only a crap ride, but it's a wet one as well!
__________________

__________________
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt!
Dirk Diggler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08 June 2004, 14:45   #13
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Cippenham
Boat name: Falcon1
Make: Falcon
Length: 6m +
Engine: 115hp Mariner Four S
MMSI: 235021077
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 508
I had a ride on a 700SR at southampton, One thing i noticed was that it was very critical to weight distribution, mainly i think because the tubes dont sit in the water. on the 640 you can sit anywhere and it dosnt upset it. I thought the Ride was OK but harder than the 640 although it was fairly calm at the time.

The most interesting thing was the comments from the demonstrator, cant remember his name but he knew what he was about. He said, that they, (Rib-x) much prefered the 640, it was much better in rough weather, turned better had a softer ride and was virtually impossible to upset it. I think this pretty well sums up the test in Rib International. obviously the Race influence makes for a more difficult boat to drive. it sounds as though Manos has set his up well and knows how to get the best from it, plus he has the right seats in his. I can understand where he is coming from as i used to have a very tweaked Elan S3 and none of my freinds could handle it. so perhaps given time and a correctley set up boat opinions might change.

Maybe Rib-X should set up and market the 700 SR as more of a race derived boat with equipment more suitable to that application.
__________________
chrisallse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08 June 2004, 15:38   #14
Member
 
Country: Greece
Town: Gloucetsreshire
Boat name: GATO DI MARE
Make: MAR.CO
Length: 9m +
Engine: Yamaha 200Vmax
MMSI: 235027678
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,339
Send a message via MSN to Manos Send a message via Yahoo to Manos Send a message via Skype™ to Manos
Well thank you Chris (get a greeny then from me)

Praise for the set up should go to Falcon rather than to me, as they are the ones that they done the set up in SA

Whenever I got boats (RIBs or cruisers or even sailing yachts), I always asked and insisted that the builders do the set up so the possibility to get problems like the ones mentioned in previous posts is reduced. In my case (I think) that Falcon did it correctly and did a great job on my boat at least.

In the photos that I will post tomorrow and the video link I will send, you will all see how my boat is ballanced. We have taken it from many angles and you can derive your own conclusions from that.

NOTE for the Video link: The IT experts here can help me please. Will it work if I just put an mpg file on my site (where I have unlimited space to store data) and give you the link to download it? or I need to do something else? Any advise highly appreciated. Currently editing the video and is a pain
Manos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08 June 2004, 16:34   #15
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Hamble
Length: 9m +
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,317
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisallse
I had a ride on a 700SR at southampton, One thing i noticed was that it was very critical to weight distribution,
So your a bit of a fatty are you?

I've always been of the opinion that if a manufacturer can't "set the boat up" correctly for a show where it's going to be demonstrated, then the boat is more than likely a dog, and it's not possible to "set it up".

And i've always thought "set up" was a lovely turn of phrase, as though a race boats requirements is for it to be impossible to drive with ease!!!

If you get the chance have a ride in something like a Mark Pascoe rib, or a Revenger or similar. You won't find these running like a pig because they also get used for racing.

Quite simply, a good boat, is a good boat, is a good boat, and a dog is a dog!!!!!!!!!
__________________
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt!
Dirk Diggler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08 June 2004, 16:44   #16
Member
 
Country: Greece
Town: Gloucetsreshire
Boat name: GATO DI MARE
Make: MAR.CO
Length: 9m +
Engine: Yamaha 200Vmax
MMSI: 235027678
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,339
Send a message via MSN to Manos Send a message via Yahoo to Manos Send a message via Skype™ to Manos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirk Diggler
I've always been of the opinion that if a manufacturer can't "set the boat up" correctly for a show where it's going to be demonstrated, then the boat is more than likely a dog, and it's not possible to "set it up".
The manufacturer did not set up any boats (as you very well know ), only supplied the hull and the consoles and seats but not assembled.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirk Diggler
If you get the chance have a ride in something like a Mark Pascoe rib, or a Revenger or similar. You won't find these running like a pig because they also get used for racing.
I have and the SR9 is a great boat. But this one I went on was going slow (very slow at WOT not more than 40 knots) and behaved funny (going up and down like the engine it was fully trimmed up when it was full down) in choppy seas with twin Johnsons. The chap that has it in Greece didn't know what was wrong with it. After a couple of weeks, it transpired that the engines were not set up properly .... and when the problem was corrected it went like a bulit!

So now you can draw your conclusions and re-think
Manos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08 June 2004, 16:54   #17
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Cippenham
Boat name: Falcon1
Make: Falcon
Length: 6m +
Engine: 115hp Mariner Four S
MMSI: 235021077
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 508
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt! ..


You should practice what you preach Dank.


What boat have you got then?
__________________
chrisallse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09 June 2004, 04:05   #18
Member
 
Cookee's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Salcombe, Devon, UK
Boat name: BananaShark
Make: BananaShark
Length: 10m +
Engine: 2xYanmar 260 diesels
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,225
Manos - I would like to add my own comments, I have never driven a Falcon, although I have driven many boats in the past, so I will have to go with your very extensive report on the boat - very good considering english is your second language!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manos
1. The problem with the boat leaning on the port side: Yes it does, BUT only at around 40 knots. Before 40 knots and up to 35-36 or so and also pass that point and at 43-45 knots it corrects its self and is on the straight again.

I would have to ask why - this is surely not normal with any hull?

2. Trimming: The boat is very (I MEAN VERY) responsive to trim. As I have said before. With full trim down the nose sticks in the water and is very obvious as the boat leans completely forward. At trim on 2/2.5 (on the Yam trim gauge) the nose comes up quite a lot and up to 4 the boat gains speed, revs go up and comes out of the water completely. At trim 4.5 the boat slows down and you get a noise from the prop. At trim near 4-4.2 if you hit any waves the boat waves up and down (is this the right expression?) we call it in Greece that it behaves like a dolphin, and the trim needs to come down again just a notch and this effect stops.

In the UK we call it porpoising but it is completely normal.

3. Turning: On a 380 deg turns and at about 30/32 knots with trim at 2-2.5 the boat turns without any problem and comes out of the turn with the same speed as when it went in the turn. On 380 deg turn and at about 47-50 knots with trim down to 1/1.5 the boat tends to slide just a tinny bit mid way and then you can feel the hull (with a small juddering not to the hull but to your body - if this is the right expression again) getting its grip again and carry on as normal. Again the boat comes out of the turn without having lost speed (or in some runs we did lost a couple of knots). There was no prop ventilation at any one point except when we tried a turn at WOT with trim mid way and the result was as you would expect.

The above depends on how tight the turn is - is it at full lock or what is comfortable?

5. Speeds: Cruising is comfortable to very comfortable (in this very nice and calm sea and smooth wind state conditions) at 33-35 knots on GPS, 3800 revs and trim at 2.5/3.00 on the Yam trim gauge. At WOT and at 5700 revs with two persons onboard, trim at 3.6-4.0 (this Yam trim gauge goes up and down for some reason but they say is normal) top speed on GPS was between 54-56knots. We made quite a few runs so we got the slowest and the fastest. We felt that with less weight on the boat it may have gone faster, but this is another matter.

In a calm sea any boat would be comfortable!

6.Safety: At no time we felt unsafe on the boat. I suppose this is because of the bucket type seats I have on it (driver, co-driver and aft bench are all bucket type). The boat felt fine. We felt that the seating arrangement you have described previously (not bucket type seats) is NOT A SAFE arrangement for this type of boat.

So if the Falcon or UK factory fit anything other than bucket seats you see the boat as being unsafe? Not a good advert for a leisure boat!

7. Throttle/Trim: As I said in previous posts again today we found that to handle the boat correctly one has to play constantly with the trim and the throttle. You cannot just let it go unattended (which I think was the case). We feel that this is a specialists boat (if I can use this expression) and not a boat for mainly recreational purposes (although I use it and I'm happy with that). We do not believe that it should be compared with those RIBs of recreational use. As we feel is comparing a F3 or F2 formula car with a normal car for the road.

If it isn't a boat for recreational purposes why was it being reviewed by a magazine? And why is it offered for sale in the UK as a leisure boat? My raceboat only requires any effort at all above 60 mph - surely even a specialists boat should have good handling at lower speeds?

9. Finish: As far as I can see my boat looks OK. I'm happy with it and the only thing to say is that the upholstery needed to be a bit more rugged for sea use. However, in the boats that I've just got (640SRs) the upholstery is much (a lot) better than on the 700RSR, I got 2 years ago. I need to see this boat you all went on.


10. Other comments: We feel that to drive this boat correctly, one needs to know how to drive racing boats correctly! May be Cookee (and I'm not joking) should have a go at it. Also you need a lot of time to get familiar with this type of boat, which is very sensitive to even the slightest change on trim, engine position, engine height, engine weight, prop size/pitch, weight distribution etc. The slightest change unbalances the boat.

I'm flattered Manos, and I would like to drive one to see for myself just how good/bad the boat is! Once again if the slightest change unbalances a boat should it be offered for sale to the general public?


All of the above comments are, of course in my humble opinion and I am not as widely experienced as some people on this forum, and I am relying mostly on comments on this thread as to the handling properties of this particular model - I believe the smaller model like Chrisalses boat to be a much better boat!
__________________
Cookee
Originally Posted by Zippy
When a boat looks that good who needs tubes!!!
Cookee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09 June 2004, 05:54   #19
Member
 
Country: Greece
Town: Gloucetsreshire
Boat name: GATO DI MARE
Make: MAR.CO
Length: 9m +
Engine: Yamaha 200Vmax
MMSI: 235027678
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,339
Send a message via MSN to Manos Send a message via Yahoo to Manos Send a message via Skype™ to Manos
Cookee thanks for your very constructive comments.

I am not very experienced also compared to some (very few in fact) people in this forum. I just wrote what I saw when we took the boat out. I did a bit of driving but most was done by a mate of mine (not Greek but Italian) who is racing big catamarans in Saudi and he does this for a leaving! Quite lucrative job by the way You will see him in the photos and possibly you will recognise who he is. But till then is a secret. The reason I did this is because I take my family on the boat and when I heard people saying waht they said I just wanted to make double/tripple and as much as I could shure that the boat is A OK. It seems from what it traspired that is OK.

1. I don't know to be honest. But if it corrects it self I just think is OK. My friend didn't seem to think that it was a major, major problem. He just commented about it and past it over his head. I suppose that he may have seen worst staff so this didn't make him worried. May be is normal or not but I'm not a naval designer to know any better. So I just accept it.

2. OK I understand that. We were trying to figure out how to call it. We knew the Italian word for it and the Greek but not the English LOL

3. In both instances the 380 degrees turn was with full lock. On half lock there was no problem with the boat. We tried different things, full lock, half lock getting into the turn and half way full lock no problem again. Full lock getting into the turn and half way half lock again no problem. Wide turn no problem what so ever. Me sitting right forward, sitting aft and in front of the consol.

5. I agree. The weather here these days is very calm so there is no chance to get on waves and see that aspect.

6. May be I didn't express it right. With a 225bhp engine on it I cannot see how can it be safe not to have a bucket type seating arrangement. On a high speed turn or high speed take off or bump the co-driver will be hanging for dear life. If the boat does not have a handle for the co-driver to hold from somewhere (mine didn't have but I put one on) then I can imagine the co-driver to scream his head off. I would. Is much different if you had a 90bhp or 110 bhp on it but going over that I think (again my view as I look at it from the safety aspect of a 45 year old family man - half mad ) that you need to have bucket type seats on it. An example: Last year my family (4 in total inc me) and I went on a long 2 hour trip (about 50 miles distance one way) to an island across. While we were on our way the weather changed (very usual in Greece), wind picked up and we had 1-1.5 mtrs waves on starboard side. After re-trimming the boat and increasing our speed (from 22/24 to 28/30 knots) we jumped from one wave to the next without big bumps and we felt quite safe (even my 4 then year old daughter was not worried - mind you she's been on boats when she was just 7 months old inside her mother - who was sitting aft with my wife) and this was due to many factors but also to the fact that we had seats that could support your sides. It makes you feel safer. Is like you Cookee on the race boat. If you raced it with just a jockey or a bench seat with no sides you would feel unsafe (not because the boat is unsafe) is the feel factor (sitting higher up, no side support and that short of thing I think). I hope you can understand what I mean.

7. I think one should define recreational use. Say a young mad person (or middle aged like me ) can get on this boat and have fun safely. Can put his friends or young family on it and have fun too. This I call recreational use. Also, a race boat enthusiast can take the boat blast it and race it and have fun as well. But in my opinion the boat is not for the average family man who is using his boat once or twice or even 10 times a year and just wants to potter around, thinking that is THE Captain and from time to time increase the throttle for 3-4 seconds amongst kids screaming, wife or partner shouting just to satisfy his go fast wimp. I am not sarcastic here but this how I see it.

10. Well this is a thought! Certainly it should be marketed as a specialist RIB rather than a middle of the road average boat. Quite a few of these go fast RIBs in fact should be marketed in this way IM VERY HO. I ment what I said about you driving the boat and if you ever get the chance to get over to Greece you are very welcome to try mine.
Manos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13 June 2004, 02:09   #20
Member
 
Country: Greece
Town: Gloucetsreshire
Boat name: GATO DI MARE
Make: MAR.CO
Length: 9m +
Engine: Yamaha 200Vmax
MMSI: 235027678
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,339
Send a message via MSN to Manos Send a message via Yahoo to Manos Send a message via Skype™ to Manos
Just to add little something on this one

For what ever this worth to all of you who saw the Falcon 700RSR at RIB EX and read the article by RIB Int'l just to say that the boat was also tested by the Greek FOUSKOTO KE JET mag (RIB & JET) in Greece last week. There were four persons testing the boat and 3 of them were F1 RIB racing pilots.
NOTE: At this point just to add the this magazine is co-operating very closely with RIB Int'l and they were not paid for any adds neither for doing the test. So what they found and are going to publish I want to believe that will be very objective
The preliminary results were very similar to my report above (hey I may know what I'm talking about and I'm not an expert ).
Their comments were that this boat is a FAST, SEAWORTHY boat NOT for the average Mr Captain .
The boat handles like a train in any type of cornering and at any speed, yes it does veer at port side at 38-40 knots (not much) but they did not find that this is a problem at all since the hull corrects it and you are never in any danger neither you feel that you are. They told us that other fast plaining hulls do the same thing.
Their speed radar showed a top speed with 175 Evinrude with normal prop, full load and 200 ltrs of fuel 47-49 knots (as soon as the article is published on the 20th June will copy abstracts from it and post good and/or bad ).
They added that you need to have experience to drive the boat and it should be marketed as a fast speedy RIB rather than the average cruising RIB.
Their advise was to take off all the paraphernalia like bench seats with these back rests, put bucket or bucket type benches on but lower down, straps and let the beast GO

Photos from the Falcon run will come next week. Too busy this week for any of that. Got to run is 35 deg C and just 9am (mini heat wave) and the beach is waiting.
Attached Images
 
__________________

Manos is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 13:53.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.