Rib in Rough Water

[Cookee]

Originally Posted by Seabird

This was an accident waiting to happen. The driver was positioning incorrectly and mis reading the waves. as he should have been falling back with some of these waves instead of trying to power into them

And how do you Fall back when driving into breaking surf with a big headwind?

For reference what is your background - not knocking you or anything but with only four posts I need to know who I'm taking advice from!

[HUMBER P4VWL]

Originally Posted by Cookee

And how do you Fall back when driving into breaking surf with a big headwind?

For reference what is your background - not knocking you or anything but with only four posts I need to know who I'm taking advice from!

Agreed, seems illogical, don't you need to punch through the lip?

Though that's from an amateur's perspective!

[Ribochet]

Originally Posted by Cookee

And how do you Fall back when driving into breaking surf with a big headwind?

For reference what is your background - not knocking you or anything but with only four posts I need to know who I'm taking advice from!

+ 1 for that

[Seabird]

Originally Posted by Cookee

And how do you Fall back when driving into breaking surf with a big headwind?

For reference what is your background - not knocking you or anything but with only four posts I need to know who I'm taking advice from!

I have around 8500 hours of driving small boats (5m -25m) in all sea conditions and have trained special forces, military and fast rescue drivers, I was also instrumental in founding a military and professional driver school in the UK.

I have chased Pirates and terrorist from places such as the Bay of Bengal, Yemen, Somalia, and South America at speeds from 20knot to 75knots. I also design and manufacture military RIBs in Asia.

The reason I say it was an accident waiting to happen is, If you look at the video there was some better sheltered water to his Stbd stern and I guess this is where he had started from.

It looks as if he poked his nose out into a head sea with a large breaking wave and a frequency of about two or just over boat lengths.

This is a seriously bad situation as the wave frequency is too long to allow the boat to stuff the next wave, and just the right length to launch him vertically and with wind assist, dump him the way it did.

The wave frequency was also to short for him to make a turn safely, unless very experienced and do the turn by surfing the front face of the appraoching wave.

He also had all his crew behind him so his CG was also well back.

Given that he had probably misread the conditions and was hoping to punch through the inshore waves to get to a safer longer wave, he got stuck in the worst position.

A lot of people get into this problem when they have come out from the shelter of a headland or when initially attempting to leave harbour. Bangor is particular bad for this condition.

Falling back involves absorbing some of the wave energy by letting the wave push you back by getting the boat straight on the wave and reduce throttle as the wave approaches, (this guy was actually powering into and up the wave).

Simply falling back in this situation would ulimately lead him to be driven on shore, so he would also have to slide slightly to the right on each wave until he could break out and dash for the more sheltered water which was astern to his right.

Long ago I had a situation similar to this in the English Chanel and I spent over two hours of falling back and side slipping until I could get into the lee of the Isle of Wight. Requires a lot of concentration and is very stressful. On that occassion I thought I was going to loose the boat through my own physical and mental exhaustion.

I also nearly lost a boat when departing Bangor in a similar situation as in the video, but survived only just, by letting the first one push me back and then quartering the next waves so as to change the wave frequency relative to the boat length, as I couldn't get back to shelter and had to keep going for deeper water.

In another situation I got caught by some very bad monsoon conditions between Yemen and Somalia, but as I was aready in deep water well away from land I was able to tie coils of rope to a 50metre length of rope tied to the bow bollard to act as a sea drogue, and sit out the storm.

In these situations there are no hard and fast rules for survival and much comes down to reflex actions, knowing your boat, experience and confidence.

Simply punching waves is not always safe, and often you are better to go through or under a head on wave than risk a backward flip by going over the top.

If you do get stuck and have to keep going into the weather then consider slightly quarteing the the wave, the amount of quarter depends on boat length compared to wave frequency, but as you ride up the face the wave keep plenty of power on and hard steer into the wave as the crest approaches to limit the risk of being rolled over.

[Cookee]

Very impressive CV! I understand what you mean by "Falling Back" now and it makes more sense. The only time I have been close to that was off the Needles in a race heading for Poole and we made a lot of ground against the other boats by heading about 40 degrees off course and "tacking" towards the next mark which was straight into the wind and waves, it made the difference between constantly going almost vertical and making good progress, it wasn't as bad as the video looks though!

I believe the only reason to be out in those conditions is as a rescue service and they were being ambitious or they would have made it.

Where are you in Asia? a friend of mine is working with military boats in Malaysia.

[tonymac]

Originally Posted by Cookee

Very impressive CV!

[Seabird]

I am operating in India at the moment which is a bit of an eye opener

[Squid Boat]

Thanks seabird, I have been in seas in a small boat in the conditions you describe a few times over the last 30 years. Having you describe the mechanics of the heading and timing may help me some day.I have been guilty of not staying on shore on really big days....but now as a dad I will make changes.

Cheers.

[mister p]

Originally Posted by Seabird

I am operating in India at the moment which is a bit of an eye opener

Does Delhi belly break your cover despite the beard and tan?

[Seabird]

Food is a bit of a problem but fortunately you can get European food from specialist shops in the diplomatic residencies.

I just can't understand why people don't eat cows, they are everywhere. People have leather shoes, leather unholstery in their cars but won't eat what was in the skin.

Otherwise very nice people but a very different culture

[Seabird]

Mister P
You learn something new every time out, and after thirty years you can consider yourself as very experienced and a safe pair of hands.

[mister p]

Indeed, remember to use the correct hand........not both!!!

[Shafe]

I am looking at boats and have a theoretical question related to boating in rough water.

If you had to choose, would you rather be on a boat that has the maximum power engine that model is allowed, or a boat a few feet larger that has the same size engine as the smaller boat, and therefore below its maximum power allowed... ??

In other words, when battling wind and waves, is it better to be light and quick or heavy but less powerful?

thanks in advance

[ShinyShoe]

Provided the lack of power is not so small that the boat will have a safety issue then length matters more than oomph.

[willk]

Long and heavy beats short and nimble every time. You're barking up the wrong tree with the Aerotec if you're going offshore

[A1an]

Originally Posted by ShinyShoe

length matters more than oomph.

. I've been telling the wife the opposite for years

[kerny]

Originally Posted by A1an

. I've been telling the wife the opposite for years

[Festinghouse]

Originally Posted by willk

Long and heavy beats short and nimble every time. You're barking up the wrong tree with the Aerotec if you're going offshore

think i would also argue that short and nimble would beat long and light as you can spend more time staring at the sky

[Shafe]

Originally Posted by willk

Long and heavy beats short and nimble every time. You're barking up the wrong tree with the Aerotec if you're going offshore

Not after much reading although it sounds like a great SIB.

But I am researching the Futura MK2 FR (4.1) or MK3 FR (4.5) with a 25hp 4 stroke and trying to determine which would be better in the rare event I strayed from the coastline and went a few miles out on calm days.

I have friends who cross 20 miles to the Channel islands in 3.6s but I'm not that crazy at this age.

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by Shafe

Not after much reading although it sounds like a great SIB.

But I am researching the Futura MK2 FR (4.1) or MK3 FR (4.5) with a 25hp 4 stroke and trying to determine which would be better in the rare event I strayed from the coastline and went a few miles out on calm days.

I have friends who cross 20 miles to the Channel islands in 3.6s but I'm not that crazy at this age.

I think that given the size & category of boat that you're looking at, a couple of HP & a foot or 2 here & there, is a moot point. If you were talking metres & 10s of HP then it would be a different case. I.e. a couple of feet & another 5hp isn't going to make much difference in a SIB if it turns snotty, whereas a couple of metres & another 100hp on a RIB will be a world of difference.