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Old 26 September 2005, 13:41   #1
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Originally Posted by CJL
PS New Atlantic 85 - How much money do the RNLI have????
Steady!

If the RNLI think that their boys (and girls) need a new class of RIB, that's fine by me.

Would you be willing to risk your life to save some moron who puts to sea without proper safety equipment?

Chris.
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Old 26 September 2005, 13:48   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Murray
Steady!

If the RNLI think that their boys (and girls) need a new class of RIB, that's fine by me.

Would you be willing to risk your life to save some moron who puts to sea without proper safety equipment?

Chris.

Yes but there ARE limits - if the RNLI aren't careful people will start thinking "they have too much cash"!!!

The vast majority of rescues these days are carried out on nice days by inshore lifeboats - with the improvement in commercial shipping and navaids etc do they REALLY need boats like this???

How on earth did they use to manage a few years ago?? Still seemed pretty good to me!!!
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Old 26 September 2005, 13:58   #3
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Originally Posted by codprawn
Yes but there ARE limits - if the RNLI aren't careful people will start thinking "they have too much cash"!!!

The vast majority of rescues these days are carried out on nice days by inshore lifeboats - with the improvement in commercial shipping and navaids etc do they REALLY need boats like this???

How on earth did they use to manage a few years ago?? Still seemed pretty good to me!!!
Sorry Codprawn, I don't agree that there are (or should be) limits.

Just because many of the "shouts" might occur on good days, doesn't alter the fact that the RNLI crews are prepared to go out in extremely hazardous conditions to save lives.

If better equipment exists then IMHO, they should go for it!

Regards,

Chris.
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Old 26 September 2005, 14:31   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Murray
Sorry Codprawn, I don't agree that there are (or should be) limits.

Just because many of the "shouts" might occur on good days, doesn't alter the fact that the RNLI crews are prepared to go out in extremely hazardous conditions to save lives.

If better equipment exists then IMHO, they should go for it!

Regards,

Chris.
What about replacing every lifeboat with a helicopter or a nuclear submarine then - see there HAVE to be limits!!!
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Old 26 September 2005, 14:36   #5
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Don't get me wrong - if they have a justifiable reason for it fair enough - for example the use of hovercraft in places like Morecombe bay is a great idea - the Burry Estuary needs one as well.....

Their new training college is a good example - how did they manage up until now without it??? Also why build it in an area where land is so expensive??? Surely they could have built it somewhere else for a lot less money - Sunseeker have far less impressive premises!!!

I always give to the RNLI but I have come to realise there are loads of really good independent outfits that really struggle - didn't realise that until I joined Ribnet!!!
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Old 26 September 2005, 14:50   #6
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I always give to the RNLI but I have come to realise there are loads of really good independent outfits that really struggle - didn't realise that until I joined Ribnet!!!
like this one!
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Old 26 September 2005, 15:27   #7
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I personally think that the rescue services give a fantastic service and they need good reliable kit, we can all think of extreme cases of kit they could not justify like nuk subs etc, but, at what price for the saving of life, if a new faster boat means they can be there quicker and save a kid then i am all up for it. They may buy kit that we think is extravagent and flash but i would like to think they get it for trade price and they do look after their equipment so i expect they spend their money wisely.


Never called em and hope i dont have to but if i did i would hope they had the best of everything to increase my chances......
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Old 27 September 2005, 04:17   #8
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like this one!

Oh right that will be the lifeboat that T boned me just off the entrance to Cowes!

Chris
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Old 27 September 2005, 04:47   #9
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Atlantic 85

I seem to recall that the display stated that the cost of the new Atlantic 85 was £115K (it might have been £125k).

Is that unreasonable? Standard twin 115HP engines would cost £15-16K, to make them restart after inversion? Double it. The electronics? Say £20-30K, £20K for the hull. It soon adds up to a tidy sum, and I for one don't begrudge it to them.

On the Show though, boring! The exhibits were almost all the same as the previous "n" years, and with the exception of the Sunseekers in almost exactly the same places. The chandlers were not offering any significant discounts either - perhaps they did Sunday p.m.

One thing caught my eye though. The rib with wheels which could be driven (allegedly) down the beach, into the water, and off. I'd love to try it.

Russell
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Old 27 September 2005, 04:59   #10
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Oh right that will be the lifeboat that T boned me just off the entrance to Cowes!
Interesting... tell us more. Was it your port or starbord side?
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Old 27 September 2005, 05:14   #11
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Interesting... tell us more. Was it your port or starbord side?
Before you ask I was stationary but he hit me port side to. He came along side at 90' and clobbered me.

He did look a bit of an old boy so perhaps his sight was failing him

Not impressed.

Chris
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Old 27 September 2005, 05:16   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJL
PS New Atlantic 85 - How much money do the RNLI have????
Rather a lot I think. In 2000 they had £200m in "free reserves". However, to put this figure in perspective, this represented just under 3 years running costs. I understand that the figure is now down to about 1.5 years running costs, presumably the capital expenditure at Poole accounting for a large part of the drop.

There is a school of thought that suggests they were "encouraged" to reduce their reserves by the charity commission, in order to deflect critisism of hoarding cash.

Personally I don't begrudge them a penny. The better the kit, and the better trained the operatives - the safer it is for all on the water.

Ian
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Old 27 September 2005, 05:17   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RussellH
I seem to recall that the display stated that the cost of the new Atlantic 85 was £115K (it might have been £125k).

Is that unreasonable? Standard twin 115HP engines would cost £15-16K, to make them restart after inversion? Double it. The electronics? Say £20-30K, £20K for the hull. It soon adds up to a tidy sum, and I for one don't begrudge it to them.

Russell
Why do the RNLI not buy off the shelf boats? There are some seriously good boats available for that price?? I suspect its because the surplus cash is available for a bespoke boat and thats the only reason.

Whats wrong with an Arctic, Delta or other commercial rib?

Chris
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Old 27 September 2005, 06:04   #14
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Why do the RNLI not buy off the shelf boats?
If I turn my Humber over, I doubt the engine would start again (ever). I don't need an "A" frame capable of carrying the radar, antennae, etc. that the RNLI carry or the self-righting kit. Or a console etc. etc.

If you've bought a new boat recently the "bog standard" boat price inflates very quickly as the extras are fitted. I also suspect that the commercial operators do not take their boats to the extremes that the RNLI do.

Quote:
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I suspect its because the surplus cash is available for a bespoke boat and thats the only reason.
That's a bit churlish isn't it? I give them my money every year and hope that I'm never in the position to test their kit for real.

R.
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Old 27 September 2005, 06:41   #15
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'Their new training college is a good example - how did they manage up until now without it??? Also why build it in an area where land is so expensive??? Surely they could have built it somewhere else for a lot less money - Sunseeker have far less impressive premises!!!'

The new headquarters /training college is about people at the top empire building , it goes on in any organisation ,and may well be an extravagance.However that should not be confused with providing the people on the front line with the best and safest,for them and us,equipment available.If they think that the Atlantic 85 is it then that is fine by me.
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Old 27 September 2005, 06:47   #16
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I'm sorry but its fairly obvious to me that other off the shelf boats do perform just as well as the Atlantic.


Look here: http://www.deltapower.co.uk/news-northumbrianpolice.htm

and here: http://www.deltapower.co.uk/news-projectjigsaw.htm

and here: http://www.deltapower.co.uk/news-ascensionlandgovt.htm

Chris
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Old 27 September 2005, 12:56   #17
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Atlantic 85

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robox
'Their new training college is a good example - how did they manage up until now without it??? Also why build it in an area where land is so expensive???

The new headquarters /training college is about people at the top empire building
We have never had to do as much formal training before; H&S, more complex kit, etc. And funnily enough, it is estimated that the Training College will SAVE the RNLI upwards of £1m in VAT annually (VAT on accomodation cannot be reclaimed). I've yet to meet another crewmember complaining


Quote:
Originally Posted by CJL
other off the shelf boats do perform just as well as the Atlantic
They probably do, and in other respects, they probably don't. Lifeboats must be capable of very varied workloads, and 1 type of commercially available boat would not tick all the boxes - but bits of many of them might! There are many considerations, such as repairability at station, ease of maintenance, launching method, sea conditions (from dumping surf to sheltered harbours), fuelling restrictions at stations, the list goes on.

I do understand the concern some show at the developments, however if the R&D stopped we'd still be sending 8kt Watsons offshore...And if you look at some of the independents (e.g. Portishead) their commercial boats have strangely familiar features too.....so the RNLI must be doing something right!

The link to deltas with inversion proofed engines...I wonder who first came up with that idea? The R&D eventually trickles into mainstream usage so everyone might benefit in the future, whether you end up being rescued or not.
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Old 27 September 2005, 13:14   #18
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'Their new training college is a good example - how did they manage up until now without it??? Also why build it in an area where land is so expensive??? Surely they could have built it somewhere else for a lot less money - Sunseeker have far less impressive premises!!!'
Would that be the same training college that's 400 yards from Sunseeker in Poole or am I confused?
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Old 27 September 2005, 13:24   #19
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VAT on accomodation cannot be reclaimed
Don't misunderstand me, I'm not complaining about the RNLI facilities, but reclaim of VAT on accommodation is generally permissible - I certainly reclaim VAT on hotel bills. Or do different rules apply to charities?
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Old 27 September 2005, 13:54   #20
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I'm sorry but its fairly obvious to me that other off the shelf boats do perform just as well as the Atlantic.
I spoke to the guys on the atlantic 85 about this on Thursday (without having read this forum incidently!), and they actually invited top rib builders such as avon, humber and the like to give them some boats to try out. They took them out, abused them for a couple of days, and apparently broke every one. They subjected the new 85 hull to the same tests, and then some more, and it remained in one piece and functional.

The atlantic 85 is a hugely expensive, seriously over engineered boat, designed to do a very specific job. The boats the RNLI tried from mainstream manufacturers were not up to the same standard. The on they build, is. Plus, by building it in house, they get to specify every single little thing, to ensure that absolutely everything is dependable when they go off to rescue people. This is why their in house designed boats tend to be very heavy, very strong, and very robust.

It's a funny thing, that in a gale, the RNLI will come out for you whether you continually question and belittle them, or offer them full support. Believe me, whether they are becoming top heavy, building an empire, whatever, they are still running a hugely successful and genuinely useful FREE service with boats they know they, and therefore by definition YOU, cen depend upon to do the job and not create a bigger hazard in an emergency.
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