Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
 
Old 01 July 2012, 07:34   #11
RIBnet supporter
 
Pikey Dave's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: South Yorks
Boat name: Black Pig
Make: Ribcraft
Length: 5m +
Engine: DF140a
MMSI: 235111389
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 7,594
RIBase
Quote:
Originally Posted by willk View Post
It's very Chicken & Egg P-D, the French had some of the most p1ssed up drivers in (Western) Europe so this was, I feel, the inevitable result.

So if I understand my argument correctly, what I'm saying (in so far as I'm saying anything) is that:

No Enforcement leads to problems that lead to Enforcement.

No regulation leads to problems that lead to Enforcement.

Voluntary training/regulation leads to problems that lead to Enforcement.

So far as I can tell, all roads lead to Enforcement
Agreed, but all the testing, regulation, policing in the world hasn't stopped the carnage on the roads. People still drink & drive, speed etc. Only law abiding people obey the law. Boating by comparison is a tiny area re-death & destruction. The cost & effort involved in saving the odd life at sea by introducing individual controls is pointless, let Darwin sort out the chaff.
__________________
Rule#2: Never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level & then beat you with experience.
Rule#3: Tha' can't educate pork.
Rule#4: See rule#5
Pikey Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01 July 2012, 07:39   #12
RIBnet admin team
 
Nos4r2's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: The wilds of Wiltshire
Boat name: WhiteNoise/Dominator
Make: Ballistic 7.8/SR5.4
Length: 7m +
Engine: Opti 225/Yam 85
MMSI: 235090687/235055163
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 12,645
RIBase
I think it's more to do with staving off enforcement as long as possible.

Last time I was on the road and met an enforcement official with a clue was a very long time ago. I'd hate to see that on the water.
__________________
Need spares,consoles,consumables,hire,training or even a new boat?

Please click HERE and HERE and support our Trade Members.

Join up as a Trade member or Supporter HERE
Nos4r2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01 July 2012, 07:53   #13
RIBnet admin team
 
willk's Avatar
 
Country: Ireland
Make: Redbay Boats
Length: 9m +
Engine: 370hp
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 12,926
RIBase
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pikey Dave View Post
Agreed, but all the testing, regulation, policing in the world hasn't stopped the carnage on the roads. People still drink & drive, speed etc. Only law abiding people obey the law.
Actually, that's not entirely correct. We have had a drinking/speeding campaign here over the past few years that has reduced our roads deaths by almost 40%, this despite there being more cars on the roads. This was done through a combination of Education (advertising), enforcement and new penalties. It is now socially unacceptable to drink and drive, speeding is regarded as the act of a hooligan. This was not the case ten years ago.

This is cool: Linky
__________________
willk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01 July 2012, 08:05   #14
Member
 
kerny's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Ashton-under-Lyne Lancs
Boat name: IMOGEN
Make: Air-Craft 5.4
Length: 5m +
Engine: Etec 60
MMSI: 235087492
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 7,040
RIBase
Send a message via Skype™ to kerny
willk, do you still ignore red traffic lights in Ireland, I know for sure that it is, or was, socially acceptable to ignore a red light if the person thought that nothing was coming the other way.
__________________
Member of S.A.B.S. (Lancashire Division)
kerny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01 July 2012, 08:14   #15
RIBnet admin team
 
willk's Avatar
 
Country: Ireland
Make: Redbay Boats
Length: 9m +
Engine: 370hp
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 12,926
RIBase
We ignore all sorts of nonsense.

Geordie is in Dublin on Business and takes a Taxi from the Airport to his Hotel in the City Centre.
As they come out of the Airport, the Taxi driver shoots through a red light. "Driver, you could have killed us, you jumped that red light!" shouts Geordie.
"Ah, my brother and me, we do that all the time" says the cabbie.
A mile down the road and the Taxi driver shoots over another red light.
"Driver, that was another red light!" Screams Geordie.
"Ah its nothing at all my brother and me, we do it all the time."
They get to the next traffic light. Its green, the Taxi driver stops !
" Driver, its a green light ! Why the hell have you stopped ?" says Geordie.
"Ah yeah, " Says the Taxi Driver, " my Brother, he might be coming the other way ........"
__________________
willk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01 July 2012, 08:17   #16
Member
 
kerny's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Ashton-under-Lyne Lancs
Boat name: IMOGEN
Make: Air-Craft 5.4
Length: 5m +
Engine: Etec 60
MMSI: 235087492
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 7,040
RIBase
Send a message via Skype™ to kerny
The old ones are the best
__________________
Member of S.A.B.S. (Lancashire Division)
kerny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01 July 2012, 08:48   #17
Member
 
tonto's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Zummerset
Boat name: irven arlyss
Make: Humber Oceanpro
Length: 6m +
Engine: evinrude 135hp
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 394
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pikey Dave View Post
I can't beleeeve that people are arguing against rules that are there to protect us, the punters, from unscrupulous manufacturers. Whilst at the same time advocating more testing, taxing & bureaucracy for ourselves. They must either work for Lamp manufacturers or training agencies..
I am not arguing against safety rules, I am arguing that there should be some!
Presently there is nothing to stop a P***ed up idiot getting behind the wheel of a boat, with no training/insurance/safety equipment and doing himself and others real harm, and TBH I think there should be some rule against it.

I can not for the life of me understand why there should be any objection to having such a rule? and if i had to choose between having a law (standards/rule, call it whatever) about the colour of a sidelight, and one to make it an offence to drink and conn boat, I would definately choose the latter.
__________________
tonto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01 July 2012, 10:32   #18
RIBnet supporter
 
Pikey Dave's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: South Yorks
Boat name: Black Pig
Make: Ribcraft
Length: 5m +
Engine: DF140a
MMSI: 235111389
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 7,594
RIBase
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonto View Post
I am not arguing against safety rules, I am arguing that there should be some!
Presently there is nothing to stop a P***ed up idiot getting behind the wheel of a boat, with no training/insurance/safety equipment and doing himself and others real harm, and TBH I think there should be some rule against it.

I can not for the life of me understand why there should be any objection to having such a rule? and if i had to choose between having a law (standards/rule, call it whatever) about the colour of a sidelight, and one to make it an offence to drink and conn boat, I would definately choose the latter.
I agree to a certain extent, but my point is that only law abiding people abide by the law. You can have as many rules as you like, but that pissed up idiot will still get behind the wheel, whether it's illegal or not. The cost of policing it will fall on the rest of us who don't drink & boat, & it's a slippery slope. In the big scheme of things, how many people actually die each year as a result of poor boatmanship that would have been prevented by rules? I'm guessing bugger all. But what you would have is a mushrooming industry based around 'elf n safety that would self perpetuate. When they've introduced compulsory testing, they would have to find something else to feed off.
People are difficult & expensive to police, products aren't. It's no good having a tested, trained, licensed, sober skipper, who's driving a deathtrap because we allowed manufacturers to unload any old rubbish onto the market.
__________________
Rule#2: Never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level & then beat you with experience.
Rule#3: Tha' can't educate pork.
Rule#4: See rule#5
Pikey Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01 July 2012, 11:48   #19
Member
 
Anchorhandler's Avatar
 
Country: France
Town: Huisnes sur Mer
Boat name: Raufoss
Make: Avon
Length: 4m +
Engine: Mercury 50
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 789
Perhaps i'm the only one noticing the hypocrisy here....
How can some of you critisise the idea of mandatory boating qualifications then, in the same breath promote the importance of standardisations?

Mandatory qualification is simply a form of standardisation FFS. Only difference is that it is standarsisation of people and not objects or quality levels! This IMHO is long overdue.

Many boat users who have voluntarily taken upon themselves to achieve some sort of higher qualification seem to feel it necessary to refute the idea of mandatory quals..... Fantastic, you voluntarily decided to better yourselves which is ver much commendable but its a sad fact that a good proportion of other people out on the water would desperately benefit from some sort of education....to bring them up to a minimum set STANDARD.

The idea that people would switch off and not really pay attention if they were forced to undertake some form of required training is utter pish....I could imagine that being the case if they were forced to buy a boat and go out and spend time on the water but come on, lets face it, the reward for such a small sacrifice is surely motivation enough for people to want to do it in the first place.

I wonder how many people begrudge the required training and exams before they sit their PPL? Not many i susspect.

I find it ironic that this thread started off by debating the need for LED nav light standardisation when, if you spent as much time as me out on the water , you would soon conclude that the importance of debating the details of color, interference, reliability etc.. falls far behind the actual importance of having the f**king things actually switched on in the first place.

I still see on a regular basis people sailing/motoring at night with NO nav/running lights showing.

Would a mandatory certificate avoid this?...not totally but a little bit of knowledge goes a long way. If you can express the dangers of this to people at an early stage then maybe they would have more of a reflex to flick that switch before they head out at night.

As for the French system....what is wrong with a minimum level of equipment which must be kept on board? What is wrong with the authorities fining people if their lifejackets are out of servicing date or no fire extinguisher is found on board? Is there really a problem limiting leisure boaters to a set distance from the coast? (as a percentage, how many ribnetters genuinly go beyond 5 miles of the coast anyway?)

If you want to go further afeild, do the extra exams and get the right boat, its simple.

Simon
__________________
C'est pas l'homme qui prend la mer, c'est la mer qui prend l'homme....
Anchorhandler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01 July 2012, 12:44   #20
RIBnet supporter
 
Pikey Dave's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: South Yorks
Boat name: Black Pig
Make: Ribcraft
Length: 5m +
Engine: DF140a
MMSI: 235111389
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 7,594
RIBase
You're missing the point. Don't confuse standardisation of product with training people how to use it. Standards (as has already been said umpteen times) are there to ensure that manufacturers produce products that are fit to use. If you then place those products in the hands of a numpty, that's a different argument. When you put your dinner in the microwave, you don't have to attend a training course & pass an exam to do so. BUT, the manufacturer has to produce a machine that won't fry your head. He even has to take into account the infinite stupidity of the human race, by putting a warning in the instructions that the microwave isn't to be used for drying your pet chuhoohoo. Similarly, when did you last attend a telly watching course? No? But you know that you can sit infront of the telly, safe in the knowledge that it won't make your eyes bleed & turn you deaf... why is that....Standards dear boy, standards
__________________
Rule#2: Never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level & then beat you with experience.
Rule#3: Tha' can't educate pork.
Rule#4: See rule#5
Pikey Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:47.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.