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Old 06 October 2007, 02:37   #1
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Red diesel consultation

If anyone hasn't seen it yet, the HM Revenue and Customs consultation document is here: http://rib.net/download/energyproductsconsulthmrc.pdf

It's been out for a few weeks, but you still have until the end of this month to get your comments to them. It makes unusually interesting reading!

The preferred option is to continue selling red diesel to everyone, but for leisure users to be charged the full duty. It will be up to the seller to record the payments and make a return to HMRC.

There will be no way of checking whether the fuel in a tank is duty paid or not, and other than self-regulation by the sellers it seems likely that there will be little enforcement activity.

We estimate that the revenue gain from the expiry of the boat derogation is in the area of £10 to £15m a year. It follows that this is the maximum additional revenue at risk from private boating if, for example, boat owners were allowed to continue using red diesel but misused the scheme by (depending on the option adopted) misleading RDCO suppliers as to nature of their boat (ie commercial/ domestic), failing to submit returns or submitting false repayment claims. HMRC’s enforcement effort must be proportionate to this risk. Taken in the context of a total yield of £24bn (05/06) from oils, the private pleasure craft industry would account for 0.06% of the total revenue.

It almost makes you think that it is something that has been forced upon HMRC and they think that it's more bother than it's worth . . .

John
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Old 06 October 2007, 02:58   #2
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Private pleasure craft will continue to be able to use red diesel
legitimately for purposes other than propulsion
3,000 litres of red please.... I'm expecting a cold winter!
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Old 06 October 2007, 03:25   #3
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Interesting....

...as far as I know, the Frenchies still get to use red in their boats, and no plans to change this.

Don't go using your UK heating oil in your diesel boats though. For the most part, it's kerosene, or very close to it, that is used to heat UK homes, and although your diesel engine would probably work on it, you can't be sure of long term results.

In France, the red heating oil IS diesel, so no problems there.
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Old 06 October 2007, 06:30   #4
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Ok, so it's going to be "self regulation" - so how is Mr fuel pontoon going to know wether I'm using my charter rib for business or pleasure?
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Old 06 October 2007, 07:01   #5
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Ok, so it's going to be "self regulation" - so how is Mr fuel pontoon going to know wether I'm using my charter rib for business or pleasure?

At £5.53 an hour I doubt he'll care.
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Old 06 October 2007, 07:03   #6
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Ok, so it's going to be "self regulation" - so how is Mr fuel pontoon going to know wether I'm using my charter rib for business or pleasure?
One tip Tim do not put diesel in your boat!
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Old 06 October 2007, 08:36   #7
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I bought a ton the other day and it cost me 29 p a litre ...how much is it on the pontoon pumps now
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Old 06 October 2007, 09:04   #8
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It almost makes you think that it is something that has been forced upon HMRC and they think that it's more bother than it's worth .

It has been forced on them.. it is no more than a measure to reduce rebated fuel fraud, and increase the tax take for the treasury. In the scope of this, peole who are considered ligitimate (or not) user of rebated fuels have come under the spotlight.

The construction industry has had the RDCO scheme for a couple of years now and its implementation has proved something of a nightmare for HMR&C

Enforcement is a farce IMO and HMR&C dont even know their own rules with regard to this, as I have caught them out with some spectacular ineptitude on their part.

Trouble is.. Gordon Brown wants to increase his tax take one way or another.

I wonder just how much extra beurocracy this has created, and really how much has been achieved with the scheme as a whole.

One thing is for sure, its another task expected to be carried out by many already hard pressed business owners, in monitoring & recording the sale of it without recompense from the government.
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Old 06 October 2007, 11:16   #9
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Originally Posted by bernithebiker View Post
...as far as I know, the Frenchies still get to use red in their boats, and no plans to change this.

Don't go using your UK heating oil in your diesel boats though. For the most part, it's kerosene, or very close to it, that is used to heat UK homes, and although your diesel engine would probably work on it, you can't be sure of long term results.

In France, the red heating oil IS diesel, so no problems there.
Its fine to use with a bit of added cooking oil for extra lube - trouble is it's now dyed yellow!!!

I suspect the new ruling will hurt the marina fuel pontoons - they will HAVE to comply - especially if they are council run like ours is.

I should imagine the pontoons will soon be awash with the sheen of spilt diesel from jerry cans.......
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Old 06 October 2007, 12:47   #10
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It seems obvious to me that the government and HMRC are really fed up with the whole affair.

They are obviously trying to find a way of minimising the cost of the change to businesses and private users too - when was the last time you heard a government department suggest a voluntary tax collection scheme?

The consequences of getting it wrong will be the closure of many fuelling points around our coasts, thus creating a major safety issue. Already, a large proportion of callouts to motor boats by the RNLI are to vessels that have run out of fuel. This could only get worse, especially in our more remote areas.

The answer of course is to vote for UKIP in our forthcoming elections. Then we can tell those interfering busybodies of the Common Market/EEC/EU, most of whom have no seafaring knowledge (some may never have seen the sea) to p**s off and leave us to run our own country the way we want to.

Of course, if we all (suppliers and customers) practised a bit of civil disobedience and refused to have anything to do with the scheme, it may all go away. That's what's kept our pounds and ounces, gallons and miles.
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