Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
 
Old 10 July 2011, 16:38   #1
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Southampton
Boat name: Seahawk 3
Make: Parker 6.3
Length: 6m +
Engine: 1.7 Mercruiser
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 39
Question about engine hours

Evening guy's. I was wondering how many engine hour you could expect from a yamaha 250 which has been used on salt water and has never been flushed through? I'm looking to upgrade my current ribeye to a ribcraft and have found an ex charter ribcraft which looks to be in good order but has around 1000 hours on the clock. Obviously the fact that they dont flush them through is ringing alarm bells tbh. I though flushing through was common practise? Does it matter if its not flushed if its being used more regularly? I'm competant enought to know that high hours in a short space of time isn't always a bad thing, better to be used than just sat.
I have been looking at a new boat but the vat just kills it for me, so this is the next best thing just don't want to have to spend more money on re-powering if i should go ahead and buy the thing. Any advice would be appreciated
__________________

__________________
The Slug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10 July 2011, 16:43   #2
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Plymouth
Length: 6m +
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,693
I'll start it off by saying I'd think it more important to flush with high hours as the more salt it's had through it's waterways. If it's been kept on a Marina berth you can understand why it may not have been done. If it's been recovered after each use then that's just lazy!!! Basic maintenance so what else has been left out ?

High hours but if the price is right and it's running right with history there's plenty of life left in it.

On the other hand the local dry stack don't flush the boats after each recovery so it's possible.
__________________

__________________
Boats&Outboards is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10 July 2011, 17:00   #3
RIBnet Supporter
 
willk's Avatar
 
Country: Ireland
Make: Redbay Boats
Length: 9m +
Engine: 370hp
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 13,772
RIBase
1000 hours is a large part of the expected lifespan of an outboard engine and well into major overhaul territory. Start running....
__________________
willk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10 July 2011, 17:14   #4
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Plymouth
Length: 6m +
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,693
Quote:
Originally Posted by willk
1000 hours is a large part of the expected lifespan of an outboard engine and well into major overhaul territory. Start running....
Hence th price needing to be right!!

Peter @ Boatsandoutboards4sale ~ askboatsandoutboards4sale@sky.com ~ 07930 421007
__________________
Boats&Outboards is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10 July 2011, 17:33   #5
DM
RIBnet supporter
 
Country: UK - England
Boat name: Little Wing
Make: Searider 5.4
Length: 5m +
Engine: Tohatsu 90
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,067
Quote:
Originally Posted by willk View Post
1000 hours is a large part of the expected lifespan of an outboard engine and well into major overhaul territory.

Which engine repair company told you dat?
DM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10 July 2011, 18:01   #6
RIBnet admin team
 
Poly's Avatar
 
Country: UK - Scotland
Boat name: imposter
Make: FunYak
Length: 3m +
Engine: Tohatsu 30HP
MMSI: 235089819
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 11,009
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Slug View Post
Evening guy's. I was wondering how many engine hour you could expect from a yamaha 250 which has been used on salt water and has never been flushed through?
Not flushing an outboard may result in less efficient cooling. That is probably not going to be the killer on that engine unless the cooling is really significantly impaired. With 1000 hours on the clock its the other bits (metal rubbing on metal) that could be expensive to fix.

Quote:
I'm looking to upgrade my current ribeye to a ribcraft and have found an ex charter ribcraft which looks to be in good order but has around 1000 hours on the clock. Obviously the fact that they dont flush them through is ringing alarm bells tbh. I though flushing through was common practise?
its not easy to do if the boat lives afloat - especially on a mooring. Presumably they have told you this which means they don't see it as a problem. I'd certainly rather have an engine which was used daily and never flushed than one which was used only once a month and never flushed (in the former the salt probably never really gets a chance to dry out/solidify (esp. if kept afloat) whereas in the latter its slowly crystallising to hard impenetrable crystals).

Quote:
I have been looking at a new boat but the vat just kills it for me, so this is the next best thing just don't want to have to spend more money on re-powering if i should go ahead and buy the thing. Any advice would be appreciated
Big jump from looking at a "new boat" and one which has an engine with 1000 hours on it...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boats&Outboards View Post
I'll start it off by saying I'd think it more important to flush with high hours as the more salt it's had through it's waterways.
you think? whilst the salt is moving its not really causing a problem. its the salt sitting doing nothing that is the issue - i'd go with the opposite.
Quote:
Basic maintenance so what else has been left out ?
well if its been serviced as per yamaha's recommendations every 100 hours its potentially had a lot more TLC in its short life than a "private" user who ignores it except for once a year...

Do yamaha even say it should be flushed daily - IIRC my manual only mentions it in the storage for >2months section (although I do it every trip as never sure when going back in)? It does suggest a 15 minute flush though - which I doubt all charter skippers would bother with when keen to get the boat back and get some rest/beer at the end of the day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by willk View Post
1000 hours is a large part of the expected lifespan of an outboard engine and well into major overhaul territory. Start running....
although if it has had its full 1000 hrs service (including timing belt replacement and various other special parts) then it might be a better option than say a 4.5 yr old motor with half the hours which is going to need that very expensive service at the start of next season. If you are planning to put lots of hours on it a 1000 hr engine its not a good place to start - but if you are a typical leisure user doing 50-100 hrs a season then is there much difference? are those 100 hrs going to be where it fails?

That said - I wouldn't buy a 1000 hr outboard unless I could afford a back up plan if it needed replacing...
__________________
Poly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 July 2011, 02:42   #7
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Plymouth
Length: 6m +
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,693
My point being that if it's had high usage I'd want to ensure that it's services and maintenance has been kept up rather than left.

The OP does not say that it's done 1000 hours on charter or that it's been serviced every 100 hours as per Yamaha requirements, just that it's ex charter so it could be that it's had 500 hours on charter with good upkeep then 500 private with not so good upkeep hence my points. Maybe a printout would help as if it's 1000 hours at 1/2 power that's not so bad. 1000 hours on or near WOT might be different

If it's being bought directly off the charter and with good history AND at a very cheap price I'd go for it. If not I'd keep looking

Peter @ Boatsandoutboards4sale ~ askboatsandoutboards4sale@sky.com ~ 07930 421007
__________________
Boats&Outboards is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 July 2011, 05:04   #8
Member
 
Country: UK - Scotland
Boat name: Wildheart
Make: Humber/Delta Seasafe
Length: 5m +
Engine: Merc 60 Clamshell
MMSI: 235068449
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,650
I'll leave you yam experts to discuss the servicing, but having seen some Suzis which were ex fising boat and never seen a flush hose in their lives the water passages were as spotless as they were going to get.

Bottom line is that if there is a constant flow of water, the salt can never solidify. If there is a spot hot enough to evaporate the water & crystallise the salt while it's running I'd say you have bigger problems than flush.

Remmeber flushing is all well & good, but unless the engine gets hot enough to open the thermostat, half the system will never have seen fresh water anyway......

So yeah, depends on the price......
__________________
9D280 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 July 2011, 05:35   #9
Member
 
Anchorhandler's Avatar
 
Country: France
Town: Huisnes sur Mer
Boat name: Raufoss
Make: Avon
Length: 4m +
Engine: Mercury 50
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 789
Hi guys
You lot seem to be forgetting one pretty important factor concerning stagnant salt water... It makes for a fantastic electrolyte!...
I flush my outboard through each and every time not because I'm concerned with salt deposits ( as generally the deposits will wash off the next time the engine is fired up) but I know that two dissimilar metals left in salt water will immediately result in galvanic corrosion. This is far more damaging than any deposits left behind. I would expect most of the water to drain from the outboard but is it worth taking the chance that isolated pockets of warm salt water are left behind? ( especially if the outboard is left tilted back) Due to fresh water having a much lower particulate content ( negligible chloride particles ) then it's is much harder for a electrical circuit to be made thus minimal current generated between the two different types of metal.
As mentioned already, I would much rather have a high hour engine that is used frequently (and hopefully serviced accordingly) even if it was not flushed after each use than an outboard that gets used occasionally and then left for extended periods of time without being flushed.

Simon
__________________
C'est pas l'homme qui prend la mer, c'est la mer qui prend l'homme....
Anchorhandler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 July 2011, 07:52   #10
Member
 
kubcat's Avatar
 
Country: Australia
Town: Sydney
Boat name: Lunasea
Make: Ribtec 890SX
Length: 8m +
Engine: Yamaha ME 421STI x 2
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9D280 View Post
I'll leave you yam experts to discuss the servicing, but having seen some Suzis which were ex fising boat and never seen a flush hose in their lives the water passages were as spotless as they were going to get.

Bottom line is that if there is a constant flow of water, the salt can never solidify. If there is a spot hot enough to evaporate the water & crystallise the salt while it's running I'd say you have bigger problems than flush.

Remmeber flushing is all well & good, but unless the engine gets hot enough to open the thermostat, half the system will never have seen fresh water anyway......

So yeah, depends on the price......
I have a Yamaha 20 that I inherited from a friend that lived on the water and used it daily for a year or two. Never been flushed before me. I have had it for a couple of years now using it infrequently but never had a problem. But the price was right - free.
__________________
kubcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 July 2011, 11:47   #11
Member
 
Country: UK - Scotland
Town: Aberdeenshire
Boat name: Kikican
Make: Vipermax 7
Length: 7m +
Engine: F250 / FT9.9 Aux
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 250
I'm a keen flusher (read obsessive) but I do wonder how much good it really does. All the residual heat in the head must dry the channels and bake on the salt (plus other scaling compounds in the water) long before the fresh water finds its way in when the boat out of the water (and after a drive home as in my case). It must also do this each and every time the engine is stopped. Deposits like this generally wont just simply dissolve again once the normal operating temperature is reached (which is often isn't during a flush I would suspect).

Makes the outside stay nice though.

Richard
__________________
Richard Selman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 July 2011, 12:03   #12
Member
 
Erin's Avatar
 
Country: UK - Channel Islands
Town: A large rock
Boat name: La Frette
Make: Osprey Vipermax
Length: 6m +
Engine: 200 Suzzy
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 2,853
As anchorhandler rightly states it is a problem with corrosion as much as blockage. If it hasn't been serviced and had the anodes checked/replaced then that could be a major concern. I check my anodes every year and by doing this you can also see into the waterways. My boat gets erratic use and lives on a swinging mooring. Other than a slight sludge build up of salty crystal mush there's never been a probelm with blockage or anything for me to worry about in the bits I can see. Age is more of a concern than hours IMV. Get the service history and check the anodes would be my advice if you have any doubts. Even better, pull the t-stat and see what it all looks like inside.
Erin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 July 2011, 13:02   #13
Member
 
Country: UK - Scotland
Town: Aberdeenshire
Boat name: Kikican
Make: Vipermax 7
Length: 7m +
Engine: F250 / FT9.9 Aux
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 250
Have often wondered whether a half done flush (i.e. stopped before the head has got up to temperature) or a cold flush using the hose port is actually worse than not flushing at all. The internal surfaces would be rewetted and would stay wet with a weak electrolite film (due to dissolving some of the salt deposition) that would have otherwise dried off had the engine been hot.

Also a proper flush takes two beers worth of time before boat trip truely ends and you have to back in to the house....

Richard
__________________
Richard Selman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 July 2011, 16:30   #14
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Southampton
Boat name: Seahawk 3
Make: Parker 6.3
Length: 6m +
Engine: 1.7 Mercruiser
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 39
Thanks for all your help and opinions on this. The rib in question is a Ribcraft 7.8 which was new in 2008 so they must have gone some to put that number of hours on. Judging by some of the posts having done this number of hours so quick maybe flushing isn't such an issue after all. Would still prefer if it had been done though
I will check out all the service records and hopefully get a yamaha dealer to download the true running hours and associated information from the ecu. I expect having been chartered out to jo public and used by skippers that have no vested interest in the rib that its had a fair beasting
Next question- on the assumption that all the service records add up etc and all is in good order, what do you recon a fair price for this package would be??
thanks in advance
__________________
The Slug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12 July 2011, 11:19   #15
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Plymouth
Length: 6m +
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,693
Now that's put a slightly different opinion of the hours on it for my money. As you rightly say if the public has had their hands on it chances are it's been thrashed so I'd get the printout before proceeding and see what RPM the hours are mostly at. If it's the top end then rebuilds etc are not likely to be not too far in the future as others have said

Again it all boils down to money and service history. Worth pursuing though!
__________________

__________________
Boats&Outboards is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 18:31.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
×