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Old 06 July 2004, 05:13   #11
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Country: UK - England
Town: Whitstable
Boat name: Tango
Make: Avon and Narwhal2.4m
Length: 4m +
Engine: 60HP Yamaha
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You guys need to stand back a bit here and look at the bigger issues at hand, there are lots of manufacturers making RIB collars out of PVC and all other types of materials thermo welded and glued and they dont seem to be having the constant build problems that falcon and the newly rebranded xrib have !!

So ask yourself a few fundermental questions, like why cant they make a quality boat, and why cant they QC there own workmanship and is the product fit for purpose, and most importantly if you really buy a boat thats cheap what are you really getting.

IMHO this looks like a Mr Beeney boat
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Old 06 July 2004, 05:30   #12
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Country: Ireland
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Boat name: XS-600
Make: XS-Ribs
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Engine: Merc Optimax 150 XL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilge Rat
they dont seem to be having the constant build problems that falcon and the newly rebranded xrib have !!
I presume you mean Rib-X, Bilge. Can't have people slagging my new boat now!! (XS-Rib formerly known as XRib)

I'm guessing that QC was overlooked as Falcon are now producing a lot more boats than they were when you bought "No Limit Too" and are probably rushing the builds to make delivery on time. This is unacceptable and I agree 100% with The Bat on your course of action. Why should you be out of pocket for their mistakes, not to mind whatever chartering fees you've lost due to delay!! Hope you can resolve the issue promptly!!

A local in baltimore has just had a Falcon 640 shipped by container. Will have a look to see how his is!

As regards the PVC seams, haven't Falcon just started introducing thermowelding? Maybe they're just not very good at it yet!!
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Old 06 July 2004, 05:33   #13
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Country: UK - England
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Boat name: Frances May
Make: vailant DR450
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my vailant is made using

Using this process which combines fusion with calendering at high pressures, the different parts of the tubes are assembled with a system of double internal/external tapes providing welds stronger than the material itself. As no type of glue or solvent is used which can affect the nature of the material, the welds remain totally sound, without the annoying yellow stains due to excess glue when the craft is cold glued.


and the tube are made of

This material, designed specifically for inflatable craft of recreational usage, is manufactured by MEHLER AG, a branch of the KAP Beteiligungs AG group from Germany, with more than 40 years experience in the manufacture of reinforced materials of high technical performance.

The material is composed of a base fabric of HIGH TENACITY TREVIRA, internally and externally coated with two coats of vinyl and with an outer coat of acrylic finish which reinforces the resistance to environmental agents, ageing and dirt, making cleaning easier.

manos i dont think any of your problem are due to what your boat is made of just who made it my seat had a small tear after 5 days out it was replace from vailant in one week after i ask for the dealer to sort it out

get what you pay for
dan
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Old 06 July 2004, 06:04   #14
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Boat name: XS-600
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel TD5
my vailant is made using

Using this process which combines fusion with calendering at high pressures, the different parts of the tubes are assembled with a system of double internal/external tapes providing welds stronger than the material itself. As no type of glue or solvent is used which can affect the nature of the
material, the welds remain totally sound, without the annoying yellow stains due to excess glue when the craft is cold glued.
This is thermowelding!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel TD5
and the tube are made of...

....The material is composed of a base fabric of HIGH TENACITY TREVIRA, internally and externally coated with two coats of vinyl and with an outer coat of acrylic finish which reinforces the resistance to environmental agents, ageing and dirt, making cleaning easier.
Otherwise known as PVC!!

The Valiant website is full of technical terms about what they use and how they use it but when you ring them and ask them to explain (I did when I used own one!!) its quite simple actually. Standard boats are thermowelded PVC just like Manos' new Falcons

Valiant also make a professional series using what they refer to as
Quote:
AKRON TPE of High Resistance to Abrasion has been developed to be used in professional, army, and rescue craft, being accepted for this purpose by the most prestigious organizations of rescue and safety at sea,such as the US COAST GUARD and British RNLI, complying with the MIL B-53067 Regulations of the US Department of Defense and having the RINA CCE36599/1 certification for use in the manufacture of rescue craft.

The main characteristics of the material can be summarized as an extremely high resistance to abrasion, five times greater than that of Neoprene/Hypalon, together with a very high resistance to pollution, to the action of U.V. rays and to impact in accordance to the puncture test. Its elastomer polymer nature permits the successful combination of the traditional properties of rubber, flexibility, elasticity and watertightness, with the advantages of thermoplastics manufacture, permitting the industrialization of its manufacturing process, thus compensating the high cost per metre of material.
This is simply Polyurethane (PU)

Just thought I'd clear up the all the jargon!!
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Old 06 July 2004, 06:09   #15
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Country: Greece
Town: Gloucetsreshire
Boat name: GATO DI MARE
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Bat I agree 100% with you. I am looking for a solicitor in SA to see what we can do about this mess. This is becuse Mr FALCON has completely ignored all the emails and communications I have sent to him appart from the inital one with all the excuses about why the boat got damaged in the container. Regarding all the defects I/ you also found on the boat I have heard nothing so far. Neither I heard anything regarding the deposit of the money they hold for our next order that we have now cancelled.

Swginn IMHO a professional buiilders if they don't know how to weld PVC (I saw FALCON guys the machine while I was in SA and the people who operated din't fill me with confidence I admit) they stick to what they know best or they do not produce.

TD5 MEHLER is German name as you say. This is what FALCON (Apparently - with capital A) use on their boats. I doubt though somehow. Do you have the telephone number of MEHLER or any contact details just to ask them if FALCON are actually using their product or if they are fibbing and are using a 2nd rate material saying that is MEHLER? MEHLER is a very serious German company and if I tell them what happened on the PVC (if it's theirs) I'm sure they will reply to me and will not ignor me as Mr FALCON did.
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Old 06 July 2004, 06:14   #16
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swginn

as you say lots of fancy terms but the end result looks very good

and none of the finish problems of other craft

the seams are very neat and its beem commented our well its finish off

its all down to price

dan
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Old 06 July 2004, 06:23   #17
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Oh don't get me wrong Daniel I wasn't making a stab at Valiant boats just explaining all the techno-crap!!

I had the V490 Polyurethane version (Akron TPE), the seams were perfect and the PU tubes didn't show one sign of wear or seam trouble!! Thats why I've got PU tubes on my new boat as well!!

Valiant have been thermowelding tubes for years and it shows with their flawless seams, I think Falcon are still trying to get it right and unfortunately Manos' boats have suffered as a result.
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Old 06 July 2004, 06:35   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swginn
Oh don't get me wrong Daniel I wasn't making a stab at Valiant boats just explaining all the techno-crap!!

I had the V490 Polyurethane version (Akron TPE), the seams were perfect and the PU tubes didn't show one sign of wear or seam trouble!! Thats why I've got PU tubes on my new boat as well!!

Valiant have been thermowelding tubes for years and it shows with their flawless seams, I think Falcon are still trying to get it right and unfortunately Manos' boats have suffered as a result.

i know you are not having a go at vailant its just only ten members of the forums own vailant and no one seems to look at them as a cheaper boat to most other makes and my boat cost less than a falcon/ xrib in the uk by about
1000.00

dan
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Old 06 July 2004, 07:00   #19
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swginn.... my appologies, i was as you rightly pointed out talking about the rebranded falcons not XS ribs...infact i looked into XS a while back and thought they were very good value for money and a rib to keep an eye on for the future.

Of course the test of time will tell us how good these fairly new bonding techniques hold up.
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Old 06 July 2004, 07:12   #20
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Bilge,

Thermowelding is not new!! Andy/Thorper's Tornado (and most other Tornados since about 4 yrs ago) has thermowelded PU tubes, so I suppose you could ask him if he has had any trouble!! A buddy of mine has one with thermowelded PU tubes for nearly three years now with no troubles!
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