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Old 02 March 2009, 07:24   #21
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I wish I had a spare 3 hours to get really involved in this thread!

Of the 150 or so people that have done their Level2 with me, many have been 'experienced' in their own view.
Without exception, all these 'experienced students' went away with many new skills and better knowledge of a wide range of subjects.

So much depends on the skill and knowledge of the instructor, but particularly, their ability to deliver what is a very comprehensive syllabus, to what is invariably a group of students who arrive with very different levels of knowledge, experience and skills.

This is a massive subject. Just wish I had more time to elaborate.

As matter of interest, I ran a level 2 over the weekend. Of the 3 students, the one that came away with the biggest smile on his face and who admitted he'd learnt a huge amount, was the only person in the group with his own boat that he'd been using regularly for the last 2 years. One of his comments on the feedback form was 'I wish I'd done this course 3 years ago!'
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Old 02 March 2009, 07:39   #22
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generally it's the experienced ones that come out with us that can be the worst students, they think they know everything but normally (with exception of one or two) they cant even use power trim or park the boat!

Blackroady, your right and a wee bit wrong, we spend a lot of time on weather/pressure tendancies/tides etc so people can know whether they can weather the weather
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Old 02 March 2009, 07:45   #23
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you can fail level 2, people have had to come in for an extra day or 2 if we feel they need more practice
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Old 02 March 2009, 07:56   #24
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HT
Surely you mean.... 'they didn't quite meet the standard required by the course'!!!!!!!
BB
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Old 02 March 2009, 07:57   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heart-trouble View Post
Blackroady, your right and a wee bit wrong, we spend a lot of time on weather/pressure tendancies/tides etc so people can know whether they can weather the weather

I do agree - if you have never studied weather in any way you are will just be waiting to become a statistic for the RNLI . But even with a lot of training & knowledge/ experiance you can stil get surprised. I'd suggest more the value of experience outweighs training in this one area.

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Originally Posted by Heart-trouble View Post
you can fail level 2, people have had to come in for an extra day or 2 if we feel they need more practice.

Its good to see that poeple are pulled back to get more tuition. I just wish that there was more of this out there. My only analogy is to flying training - where you have to demonstrate consistency of numerous differant & combination of situations, over repeated weeks & months & if you dont you learn some more.

I'm not saying regulate everything, but hey we all pass a driving test once in our life & off we go .......for ever - why not somehting similar for boats instead of the 'you can if you want , but you dont need to if you dont want to' route that exisits at the moment? - More business for companies too ! ( I am now ready to be verbally destroyed over this )
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Old 02 March 2009, 07:58   #26
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yep sorry, you cant say fail anymore!
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Old 02 March 2009, 08:01   #27
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HT
Surely you mean.... 'they didn't quite meet the standard required by the course'!!!!!!!
BB

Good point is it a course / practice or what exatly ? Is it a test, instruction, course , certificate , qualification , exam etc

Yes - I know if I did it I'd know (I think) . For me ( only based on MY experiance , the syllabus etc I dont feel its worth my money) . If there are any PB instrcutors that want to spend a day with me on my boat, giving advice & not get paid please get in touch .
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Old 02 March 2009, 08:06   #28
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Training?

Well, I have tried hard but I could not leave this thread alone There are two sides to every discussion.
I was one of those 'experienced' students when I went to do my PB2. I had spent years in RIBs as a diver, so I had a pretty sound grounding. Oh, I know the arguments about divers not going out in poor conditions, but like many with a few years of sea experience I have been caught out by the weather at times.
So, I was not new to RIBs, but relatively new to owning my own boat and all that that entailed.
I had quite a poor experience on my PB2, but putting that aside, the benefits of experience can be gained from any of a number of sources. In my case I gained far more useful real world information from the seller of my XS - Lawrence Lock, and the guys at Barnett Marine, than from my PB2, but hey, I have an ICC to wave at the world
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Old 02 March 2009, 08:19   #29
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Blackroady
Tempting! I'll give it some thought and get back to you.
All courses (with the exception of Advanced Commercial Endorsement) use continuous assessment techniques. There is a high degree of subjectivity involved in making these assessments, which in my view, is where the problems with consistent delivery begin with instructors/training centres. The problems surrounding 'measurability' are many. In producing the new "Instructor Handbook' (G19), the RYA for the first time gave us instructors, some specific guidance on 'required performance' levels for each syllabus. It's a step in the right direction and as the name 'guidance' suggests, is not there to stifle an individuals instructors flair or creativity.

Ian
As I've said in previous posts, so much depends on the experience/knowledge/skill of your instructor. This is what dictates the quality of 'training' and not just the content of the syllabus. Sorry you didn't have the best of experiences.
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Old 02 March 2009, 12:07   #30
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I've just been reading this thread with interest and as an instructor it's all too easy to say that yes you must have instruction as it represents an income stream. But my view is you should. Sadly I don't do training at the moment as I spend most of my time in Scotland so it's not cost effective to set up another school in the South.

I have had many requests from experienced powerboaters for ICC's and I promise you they all learned stuff on the day.

I guarantee during the course with an EXPERIENCED instructor you will learn something that will improve your abilities as a sea going powerboater. The one area that stands out in this case is slipway tehniques and wave handling at high speed.
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