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Old 20 November 2002, 09:44   #21
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I agree that sinking the boat and making it part of the wave would give far better stability, but there are so many reasons in terms of seamanship that this is the wrong thing to do surely.

This is going rather hyperthetical, but thats part of the risk management process and a good tool for thinking about sea survival (do the RYA / professional course, its interesting & fun).

I agree that in principle your RIB should float on the surface when flooded. How high it floats, for how long and if it is any use to you in that state is another matter.

Firstly, you should be able to stablise the vessel with a sea anchor (or a bodge for the same effect) without getting soaking wet sitting in a pool waiting for hypothermia to set in.

Secondly, do you keep the engine running or save fuel.

Thridly, do you want to short out your electrics (radio, engine etc).

Forthly, we know you should stay with the boat, how you going to do that if it rolls over and does not kill you?

You could go on and on with this, but there are some simple things to remember in boats.
Nothing is waterproof
Nothing is unsinkable
Nothing is indistructable
You may find something close, but will work when you need it too?

Tiger
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Old 20 November 2002, 10:01   #22
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Hello Tiger. The name of this thread is Perceived Sea State and Freak waves. What you are indication are your views on bad weather. What I am talking about is REALLY BAD weather which in reality most of you will never be in. My advice is built on thousands of miles of open sea work, not any rules that have been written by peolpe who think that have been in bad weather!
I hope you never have to face extreme conditions because it is not very nice, but I can assure you that if you do not sink your boat, the chances of living are not very good at all. None of my comments are "Hypethetical" they are bourne about by having been there and done it. It is not often I will blow my own trumpet but I am afraid that I will only accept your version of how to survive in a RIB in big Seas when you have got the T Shirt. As for us, out T shirts have worn out. Alan P
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Old 20 November 2002, 10:14   #23
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Huge Seas

If you are caught in really big seas and did'nt flood the boat then you stand a very high chance of the boat capsizing. At least when flooded you are part of the wave which will carry you in its pattern. If the boat is built properly the electrics and engine bay will not get wet. Water will only get in if there are build defects and the boat is not water tight. I sunk our with water over the tubes and console on my way to belgium in a force 9 and not a drop of water got in anywhere. The engine is water tight and kept running with no problems.

I've not been in any where near the size of seas that Alan has experianced but with out a doubt I would flood the boat and sit it out till we could move on again.

Julian
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Old 20 November 2002, 10:19   #24
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Points for thourght

in that situation do u

Clip on to the boat and risk being trapped in a capsise

Stay out of the water maby on the concle or seat. would stop you becoming hypothermic as quickly but could end up with you being throne in.

simply let the boat go broardside to the waves and become part of them or try to hold nose to the weather with a sea anchor ect which may defeet the point of flooding the boat in the first place.

any ideas


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Old 20 November 2002, 12:04   #25
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The chances of the boat turning over are very remote as it will have an inherant keel weight greater than the weight of the boat, but in experiance I would recommend holding on.

You would be proberbly wearing a dry suit so the cold should not effect you that much but in any event you would not be stationary so you can wiggle your toes and fingers to keep warm.

Again in experiance, let the boat be part of the wave, if you try to hold the bow into the wave it will proberbly tip you bow over stern anyway.
I, more than anyone like a good laugh, but on matters of safety I would only state the true facts on how to survive in extreme conditions.Alan P
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Old 20 November 2002, 12:10   #26
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i had a freak wave at me once.
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Old 20 November 2002, 12:23   #27
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Ok thanks Alan I agree with all of that I will just add a Hat to the dru suit as 80% of the bodys heat is lost through the top of your head. Everyone should carry enough hats for all of the crew. The human body gives out an average of 1 kilawaht of heat per hour so food is a must to refule the body for prolonged amounts of time in the cold. o an sit close together you may aswell use some of your friends kilawhats!!!

Good thead this!
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Old 20 November 2002, 12:50   #28
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How about only taking 1 hat, which you wear, and then line your crew up, and use them as a nice heated sofa?

Flooding the boat does seem like a good idea, unless you get into the habit of doing it and then end up flooding a normal boat when conditions get nasty out of habit...

Matt
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Old 20 November 2002, 13:37   #29
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Here is a tripple freak wave!
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Old 20 November 2002, 13:49   #30
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I'm certainly not questioning your experiance in big sea's Alan!

I hoped this thread would encorage everyone to share experiances that work, rather than what I people have been taught or have read in books. Its also an opportunity to ask questions (hence my hyperthetically) and I think thats exactly whats happening!

How often do people talk about free surface affect in Rib's?!?!
Never, but its happened now and I found it rather worrying at the time.

I admit I have confused things from the start mentioning deep sea then coastal.
Should this thread split into deep sea and coastal?

I don't have any experiance of wheelhouse Ribs or big sea's, my knowledge of big sea's is from working in shipping.

My experiance is built on Rib's and Sib's mainly under 6m and not far offshore, but I have been out in weather (up to F8) that demanded 100% concentration due to the small size of the boat.

Deep Sea, I think Alan is quite right to minimise the exposure to the waves and I take onboard that flooding would be necessary.
I just wondered how sure you can be of the equipment onboard?
Ultimately, as I think Alan has made clear, if its that bad you just need the boat to keep afloat and keep you alive, after the storm you can make good.

In my experiance being in small boats with little protection, the last thing I want is a boat full of water and hinder my manoverability. That said, though it would be a last resort to flood the boat, thanks to Alan's input it's one I would not dismiss!!

Tiger
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