pacific 22 technical problems??

highlandmarine · 22 September 2010, 21:44

Ok, i take the banter about ditching the diesel and throwing a ton more money on two outboards...Never..How else would i smoke my line caught fish!!!.

So my leaking steering ram is now sorted, just needs another system bleed as its still a little notchy. Why are they so hard to do??.

Another question, after having her on the water i find she steers great to port and not so great to starboard ( like really heavy on the helm), i guess this is due to prop rotation torque??. Also at WOT she lists a little to starboard?? is this normal???.. trim tab on the leg adjusted to the left helped, but im really not certain on this one??.

At WOT engine just about hits 2450rpm, not sure what speed, but it seemed quite a while to get up on the plane with just two people aboard, with leg trimmed in or out.
, checked all hoses, cables etc. Even had a look at the fuel screw on the top of the pump.
It was screwed all the way out???
However the max speed and idle screws are still sealed

Prop fitted is a Lancing ( brand new)standard Stern drive prop 17" but not sure on the pitch, its very thick blades though. I do have a Michigan genuine prop as a spare, but im not sure what the pitch is on it either part number reads 032109 on the spline hub and 753R on the casting between the blades? but its blades are much thinner profile, searched the net for info but found nothing.

Could it be a prop issue thats losing rpms im not sure? Having read all the previous posts on pacific props im more confused than ever. It just feels like the prop is too big for the engine.
Basically any advice on any of the above questions would be very helpful me, i hate being a newbie to this type of boat..

Hightower · 22 September 2010, 21:56

PM Pete7 or Ian Austin on here.

Ian Austin · 22 September 2010, 22:39

Hi there

Stick with the diesel, once you get used to it you will love and respect it, go out in ANY weather with full confidance.

Do you have the clear hydraulic pipes in the engine bay for the steering ???

Have you changed or checked your fuel filters, dont just look in the glass bowl, as the filter pipes are the wrong way round.

I am sure that there is only one prop for the Sternpwr 101 drive and one for the 103, 101 being a 17 inch dia and the 103 being a 19 inch.

Pacs are very fussy about being clean on the bottom, even a bit of slime will slow them down.

The heavy steering and lack of speed could be the cause of one thing, trim, now you can believe me or not but on my Pac it makes loads of differance.

I start off with the leg trimmed right in, open up to full power and wait till the engine reaches 2200/2400 rpm and then start trimming out, at some point it will start to cavitate, keep trimming out and on mine it would bite again, when it bites stop trimming and let the speed build up, then i would trim out a bit more and the steering would go very light (turn from lock to lock with one finger) this would give me another 3-4 knts and then rev to 2600rpm, if this works them adjust the trim fin to make it run straight, best to test by finding some big waves and try and get to just leave the water, as this tends to show up how much it pulls to one side.

what boost are you getting on full power.

You say it takes a long time to get on the plane, how long is it, what have you been driving prior to your Pac, they are slow compared to an outboard, it's all down to weight, nearly 2 tons.

Ian

highlandmarine · 22 September 2010, 23:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian Austin

Hi there

Stick with the diesel, once you get used to it you will love and respect it, go out in ANY weather with full confidance.

Do you have the clear hydraulic pipes in the engine bay for the steering ???

Have you changed or checked your fuel filters, dont just look in the glass bowl, as the filter pipes are the wrong way round.

I am sure that there is only one prop for the Sternpwr 101 drive and one for the 103, 101 being a 17 inch dia and the 103 being a 19 inch.

Pacs are very fussy about being clean on the bottom, even a bit of slime will slow them down.

The heavy steering and lack of speed could be the cause of one thing, trim, now you can believe me or not but on my Pac it makes loads of differance.

I start off with the leg trimmed right in, open up to full power and wait till the engine reaches 2200/2400 rpm and then start trimming out, at some point it will start to cavitate, keep trimming out and on mine it would bite again, when it bites stop trimming and let the speed build up, then i would trim out a bit more and the steering would go very light (turn from lock to lock with one finger) this would give me another 3-4 knts and then rev to 2600rpm, if this works them adjust the trim fin to make it run straight, best to test by finding some big waves and try and get to just leave the water, as this tends to show up how much it pulls to one side.

what boost are you getting on full power.

You say it takes a long time to get on the plane, how long is it, what have you been driving prior to your Pac, they are slow compared to an outboard, it's all down to weight, nearly 2 tons.

Ian

Hi again.
Mine has the clear steering pipes, i cant see any air bubbles, but it still feels notchy at speed, like jerks the boat, not smooth lean from side to side. Still more bleeding to do you
think?

Fuel filters not changed yet, but i have 2 new ones ready to fit, will check fuel pipes for correct way round, also oil and filter on engine to do this weekend. Just as a note, when i push the throttle wide open, she chuffs a burst of blackish smoke around 14-1500rpm then it clears as rpms rise.

Hull has just been painted, not a mark on it, just smooth.

Boost gauge reads just under 1BAR (just under centre of clock)at 2400rpm.
Your trim set up could be key i think. I will give it a shot and let you know.

If i can get rid of the heavy starboard lean at speed and lighten the wheel effort
to turn, i will be happy..Is your PAC starboard heavy?

Previous rib was Avon SR4 with a 50 yam, so i know its never going to be anywhere near
the Avons performance, which i knew prior to buying the PAC.

Ian Austin · 22 September 2010, 23:41

Hi
I did manage to sort my steering by turning very slowly from one lock to the other, got the air in the pipes to a high point and then from one lock to the other turn very quickly to get air back into the helm pump.

If you have a glass or metal deep bowl on the bottom of the pre filter, change the pipes over, in to out and vise versa.

Black smoke on powering up is good (normal).

Under 1 bar boost is about right.

My Pac (which i sold yesterday

) pulled to the Stbd, i used to flick the steering to port just as i came off the crest as my trim fin was well and truley jammed and could not move until it was out of the water.

I bet the Pac isn't as flighty as the sr4

.

Pete7 · 23 September 2010, 15:51

Ian's advice is spot on

Quote:

Originally Posted by highlandmarine

So my leaking steering ram is now sorted, just needs another system bleed as its still a little notchy. Why are they so hard to do??.

Take it for a godd blast bouncing off lots of waves

will drive the air bubbles out of the ram.

Quote:

Originally Posted by highlandmarine

Another question, after having her on the water i find she steers great to port and not so great to starboard ( like really heavy on the helm), i guess this is due to prop rotation torque??. Also at WOT she lists a little to starboard?? is this normal???.. trim tab on the leg adjusted to the left helped, but im really not certain on this one??.

Nope didn't have this, but do play with the trim and the trim tab, mine was offset a bit. Also it could be the steering ram.

Quote:

Originally Posted by highlandmarine

At WOT engine just about hits 2450rpm, not sure what speed, but it seemed quite a while to get up on the plane with just two people aboard, with leg trimmed in or out.
, checked all hoses, cables etc. Even had a look at the fuel screw on the top of the pump. It was screwed all the way out??? However the max speed and idle screws are still sealed.

Prop fitted is a Lancing ( brand new)standard Stern drive prop 17" but not sure on the pitch, its very thick blades though. I do have a Michigan genuine prop as a spare, but im not sure what the pitch is on it either part number reads 032109 on the spline hub and 753R on the casting between the blades? but its blades are much thinner profile, searched the net for info but found nothing.

Right simple things first, any water in the hull? loaded with half a tonne of tools or other stuff? if not what is the pitch of that Lancing prop? It should be 16.75" x 21" but do try the spare Mitchigan prop and have a good search of Ribnet because I think I did give some details on here about Mitchigan props about 5 years ago.

You are down 150 rpm which is a big difference. Finally is the rev counter telling the truth? the drive is on the side of the engine and the widget can under read if its loose.

You should have to trim in when starting to accelerate and once up to planning speed after 30 seconds then trim out.

Pete

bullionbill · 24 September 2010, 11:49

Hi

I have a Pac 22 with the Yanmar in her.Shes 1998
I was up your neck of the woods last week. not with the boat though!

If you fancy a chat feel free.

07778845779 . billmalloy@hotmail.com

Billy

highlandmarine · 24 September 2010, 21:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by bullionbill

Hi

I have a Pac 22 with the Yanmar in her.Shes 1998
I was up your neck of the woods last week. not with the boat though!

If you fancy a chat feel free.

07778845779 . billmalloy@hotmail.com

Billy

Hi Billy

Whereabouts were you up here??. weather looks good for a trim and tune test on my boat tomorrow.
Got plenty of tips from you guys on here.
Will post my results over the weekend..

Thanks again

Slaphead · 25 September 2010, 13:30

When I had my Pac22 it sat at 2600rpm @ WOT and it listed to starboard. I know the RN ones did too when they operated out of Belfast. Take it off WOT and it straightened itself up. No problems steering to starboard. Cruised nicely at 21-2200rpm @ about 2 gallons per hour. The hull did slightly slimy and it killed the speed so much so that it didn't even plane. See if you can increase the rpm a bit. They need a lot of va va voom to get that weight up on top of the water.

PeterR · 25 September 2010, 17:15

Well I,m probably got about 8 hrs work untill i can sea trail mine.One job is the steering ram is weeping out of the steering ram bleed allen screws.Find a seacock filter(does anyone have a diameter and lenght measurement) so i can order one from somewhere.This is 3 yrs coming .A little bit of painting and couple of repairs to the lobster side hinges .cant wait

highlandmarine · 25 September 2010, 21:47

Saturday started sunny and flat mirror calm out on my local sea loch.

I beached my Pac higher than usual so i had lots of time to get the spanners into her
as the tide dropped away.

First job check and compare both props, same dia same pitch, but the michigan prop is
definately thinner blades, so i fitted that.

Steering ram needed some more bleeding, really is a job for two people though.
System is filled with Dexron ATF which seems to be the correct fluid according to
manuals etc.
After much pushing and pulling on the leg i finally managed to clear a small air bubble
from it.. Job done it feels great on the wheel.

Trim tab set to dead centre and locked.
Now for the engine, oil and filter changed, sea cock filter cleaned, alt belt tensioned,
Pre fuel filter swapped, Helm control box swapped for a new unit, for smoother more positive throttle action.

Checked round all hoses and clamps, cables etc.
I did find both stern engine mounting main nuts were loose, so i nipped them down.

While i was cleaning round the injection pump i found it had 155hp engraved on the
metal tag on the side, so i guess that answers things for me.

Turbo unit is a KKK unit, could this be a standard or boosted unit??.Time will tell when the tide tide comes back in...

bullionbill · 26 September 2010, 11:51

I was operating an ATV up at Glen Garry then I headed to SKY, think I was about 20miles from LochCarron at one point on the passing.

Planning a trip from Ballachulish over to Mull next weekend in the boat if the weathers ok.
Just given her a good service fitted VHF and Antenna , Bowman hatch in fordeck, re upholstered seats.new leg oil

Cant wait to get out again, hope the weathers ok.

highlandmarine · 26 September 2010, 16:25

Sunday morning, mirror flat sea conditions, all ready for a test drive.

Boat is empty apart from 3/4 full tank (90LT). Leg is trimmed fully in, trim tab centred.

Ease the stick forward 1200rpm til i get into deeper water, then feel the turbo come in
at about 1500-1600rpm, boat is rising up on the bow, steering feels pretty heavy left or right.

Throttle up to around 2200rpm ,were picking up speed, steering still heavy, now start trimming the leg out, were on the plane in about 10-15 sec i guess, revs at 2350 and still climbing, still trimming leg out, getting faster, GPS reads 28 mph, now its going , still more trim out, i can feel its still accelerating and lifting.

Speed 32mph, engine 2500 rpm, just starting to cavitate, steering still heavy but getting lighter. cavitation stops and we accelerate a little more.
Max rpm happens at 35mph, 2600rpm, steering very light indeed. Trim up anymore and she starts to porpoise, slight lean to starboard but only slight.

Now were cruising along, turning easy from side to side, what a different feel to the boat now, its amazing..!!!.Thanks to helpful tips from Ian Austin and other PAC owners on this forum.
All i need now is a new leg drive yoke and bearings, after discovering yesterday they are both knackered, lots of play in the pivot pin, which needs sorting soon.

Ian Austin · 26 September 2010, 17:10

Hi Doug
I am very pleased for you that it all worked out, now get out and find some BIG waves and enjoy.

That it, tomorrow i am going to spend on the Atlantic

highlandmarine · 26 September 2010, 22:53

Hi Ian

Had a good day out on the boat, me and the wife went for a spin this evening.

Trip over to Plockton about ten miles each way, ended up meeting a friends boat offshore, gave him a big surprise, he thought we were Customs and Excise!!!.

He forgot all about my new rib, ha ha. His face was a picture when we pulled alongside.

We all ended up having a beach BBQ on some island, we only got back about an hour ago
navigation by star light, but luckily i knew the local area and the tide was high.

The best nights are always un-planned i guess??

I dont suppose you remember the bearing and seal sizes do you?. Did the main vertical pin come out easy?, mine looks like its welded to the yoke its been in that long..Grease nipple has long since snapped off..

As for the yoke, its been welded on the starboard side, just where the steering ram locates and has a small crack above where the hydraulic union fits through the casting..