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Old 03 February 2004, 08:01   #1
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One to keep an eye on

http://www.rya.org.uk/legal.asp?contentID=3021481
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Old 03 February 2004, 08:38   #2
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Think all Diesel owners should fill the sensus or start buying used chip shop oil. In addition make a note to ask your MP when he suddenly appears from 5 years of hibernation and wants your vote during the next election.

Pete
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Old 03 February 2004, 09:05   #3
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In anticipation of the 2006 change and only commercial users being allowed to use Red, I think I will apply to be an independant Inspector ( Minsistry of Transport ) based on the sea...................

If nothing else comes of it, at least another government body will be able to justify a new £100,000 + Rib to use in calm weather and at weekends. Standing on the quay side dipping tanks would not be good enough, they would have to have all the kit, RIB, LandRover, may be even a helicopter to spot diesel engined Ribs...........

mark my words, the above will come true in some form and I want to know how to get on the band wagon......

Anyone else see where I am comming from.


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Old 03 February 2004, 09:22   #4
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Anyone else see where I am comming from.
Going over to the dark side I think. you would end up chasing those 'orrible grey ribs smuggling ilicit diesel across the channel at night time from the free states (Channel Isles).

Pete

{Boat name changed to Moonshine}
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Old 03 February 2004, 10:45   #5
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Hi folks

Would the increase in duty on fuel be enforceable for fuel used outside uk waters ?.

If I am out side UK waters, ie international waters 12 miles I belive, can I still use untaxed fuel ?.

Is so I would carry two tanks, head offshore 12 miles I belive, then run on untaxed fuel until re-entering uk waters..

Can anyone make comment on this, is this correct ?.

Regards Gary
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Old 03 February 2004, 10:56   #6
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If that happens im taking my new solent to France to fill her up.
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Old 03 February 2004, 11:07   #7
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im taking my new solent to France
wel boyss itt luks lyke a desishun az bin maid. fank cryst forr dat. itt waz lyke wochin a fkin chikken layin a ovasized eg.
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Old 03 February 2004, 11:38   #8
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wel boyss itt luks lyke a desishun az bin maid. fank cryst forr dat. itt waz lyke wochin a fkin chikken layin a ovasized eg.
shorely itt's ann ovalsized egg! gArfie yoo tawt
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Old 03 February 2004, 12:57   #9
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my new solent
What model Solent have you gone for or should i say which model have they copied this time?????? is it the Solent 5.4m Sea Rider or the solent 585
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Old 03 February 2004, 13:08   #10
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Another Shafting from the Government

Hi All,

Well IMHO all diesel boat owners are just about to get Shafted good and proper.

If you read the questionaire, all questions are biased towards taxation, and you cannot give a null answer.

In my view this is the government's way of raising taxation by getting the RYA to do the donkey work for them.

I for one would not fill in the paper out of principal.
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Old 03 February 2004, 13:28   #11
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Questionairre...

Why would the RYA be interested in helping the Government increase taxation?

The questionnaire (IMHO) is asking the questions as if the tax is already being levied to show what effect this will have on boating - and to illicit a reaction to that potential state of affairs.

If the questionnaire asked for our views if nothing changed, then that probably wouldn't help the cause - 'cos there would be no measurable difference to how we all use boats!!

I think we should fill it in. Especially as I was about to order my RIB tomorrow - it's quite big, and will have an oil burner in it...(well, it WAS going to... ...)...
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Old 03 February 2004, 13:40   #12
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The RYA did put up quite an impressive case last time around and whilst they don't normally have much to offer powerboaters, the thought of a yachtie having to pay tax on his 10 gallons of red stuff each year does bring them out fighting so hard even Millwall supporters would think twice.

The other point they raised last time around was it would cost HMG loads more to collect the tax than they would actually earn from pleasure boats.

Pete
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Old 03 February 2004, 14:33   #13
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The 6m Jono....
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Old 03 February 2004, 15:22   #14
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Perhaps the quantity of fuel used each year is significant. The more fuel we indicate we use, the more tax it will raise, therefore, the more incentive they will have to introduce a tax. So, definately don't exaggerate.
I wouldn't suggest any other response, would I?........
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Old 03 February 2004, 15:43   #15
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Amount of fuel...

No, but if you put down a small amount, it means that it will have a very small effect if tax is applied ('cos you don't use much). If you put a larger amount, although it would give Mr Brown some cash, the impact might kill off pleasure boating (being extreme for a minute) so he won't get any money!!

I'd have thought you should be as honest as you can.

How would they implement it? They would need to double the diesel infrastructure to cope with the two types. THAT won't be cheap!!

If the price goes through the roof, then biodiesel from the chippy sounds like a plan...
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Old 03 February 2004, 16:20   #16
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This might be a daft question (it's been that sort of a day) but what's to stop anyone using biodiesel or even heating oil in the boats now. Are checks carried out by HMC&E like wot they do with lorries, etc?
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Old 03 February 2004, 16:25   #17
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For Pete 7

For your info the only Free States are the Irish Republic, or as we Brits know it Southern Ireland.

Channel Islands, Free states, God knows how they keep their Tax Free status, If I was "Honest Blair" I would Tax them to Hell. Living on Nice Islands with Good weather, Expecting the British Forces to protect them and not paying our Tax. Don't make me sick.
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Old 03 February 2004, 16:51   #18
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Biodiesel and heating oil

Not that I've spent much time investigating it...

You can use it now, but you need to pay duty on it. If you aren't using it on the road, you pay the same duty as you would on red diesel. For road use, biodiesel that you make yourself works out at about 27p per litre, inc duty (assuming you can get the veg oil from the chippy for free), so would be a bit cheaper if you used it in on yer boat - but probably not worth the hassle until the tax goes up....

I don't know if anyone checks to see what boats use (as they do spot checks on the road), as making your own biodeisel is a bit of a hassle, and I shouldn't think many boat owners put normal diesel in their tanks (unless they're barking mad). Your boat exhaust would smell a bit like a chippy though.

Oh, and don't use heating oil. It's different enough to need different pumps, pre-heating and stuff. There is a thread on here somewhere which has a link to some Land Rover nutters who brew their own fuel, some good advice on there.

Anyway...fuel isn't expensive enough to risk blowing myself up.....yet...
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Old 04 February 2004, 12:30   #19
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biodiesel

I think I would consider having a go, found this link:

http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html

You must pay the apropriate tax on every litre of fuel however the fuel is made up. There was a system for emulsifying fuel with water, the water content was taxable.
Also, check that rubber components in the engine can take biofuel. Some rubber types will fail after time.
Nick.
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Old 05 February 2004, 03:37   #20
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Re: Biodiesel and heating oil

Quote:
Originally posted by DGR
Not that I've spent much time investigating it...
Oh, and don't use heating oil. It's different enough to need different pumps, pre-heating and stuff. There is a thread on here somewhere which has a link to some Land Rover nutters who brew their own fuel, some good advice on there.
We use a lot of Red diesel about 2000ltr per week for machines etc. We recently had to register with HMCE Control of Oils or something and have to keep a note of how much each machine draws at a time, something that we have always done. Our supplier has also to do the same, thus allowing HMCE to carry out an audit and in theory being able to trace every last litre. This as far as the Trade Associations tell us is to attempt to reduce the amount of Red that is freely available and to stop all the wee rascles using it in their cars.
As far as I am aware Heating oil is exactly the same as red, which is exactly the same as white with the only difference being the VAT payable and obviously the colour.
HMCE
I personally do not think that this change will happen, one reason being that it will be imposable to police and another being that by closing one door they will be opening another by making Red a valuable assest to sell illegally and we will then see Red being stolen from machines, Farms etc and sold on illegally, Much the same as is happening in Ireland with Fuel smuggiling

Andy
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